To think the working world is shit if you're an introvert?

[serena7]

I am a good worker. I get things done quickly and I'm flexible and amiable. But all of that means nothing when it comes to career progression.

It's always the confident speakers who get promotions or get hired for jobs in the first place. I think with work, the work you do only accounts for about 30% of it. The other 70% is how you interact with other people, how likeable you are and how confident you come across.

I've worked in a few different industries and this has always been the case. I have really tried to improve myself; and I'm better than I used to be (I used to have panic attacks about presentations but now I can just about do it). But I've accepted I will never get too far in my career because I don't have the extroverted personality required. I do have diagnosed social anxiety which doesn't help, but even with medication and therapy, I still can't take confidence so I think this is an introvert trait I can't change no matter what I do.

YANBU and I can totally relate. I seem to have a pattern of interview feedback which says I'm not confident enough. I actually think this is a misuse of the word confident (I'm confident in who I am). I think it's code for "you won't fit in here" because there's a stigma against women. Particularly fairly meek looking dainty ones with higher pitched quieter voices. In an industry where older grey men with deep voices are considered as adding "gravitas". I feel like it's boys club stuff running deep, in my opinion. I'm trying to figure out what to do with my life to work around it. Sigh

I was very very good at masking

Eventually though I could do it no longer.

The problem is that a hell of a lot of jobs have this environment. It's not always possible to just change away from this type of place - the environment needs to adapt too

50% YABU, 50% YANBU.
There are very few jobs in this world where 'getting things done' doesn't involve building relationships.
And the higher up you go, the more the job becomes about 'management' and less about doing the actual work.

As much as I hate BS and 'cultivating' relationships as a logical person I can also see why it's necessary. A lot of people can do 'things' quickly, if the 'thing' involves individual contribution. Not many people can influence others and at higher positions that is almost uniformly a big part of ANY job. I am a programmer, a famously 'introverted do your job' profession but that's just a media perception it still involves a fair bit of peopling!

It is not really about extroversion but being calculated and targeting the right people. Do a good job on 'visible' projects, make sure your message gets to the decision makers not just the 'little people'.

I have autism and ADHD so it's hard for me, already the difficulties are showing. I've done well so far to get to middle management (in part due to a supportive boss). I could go further, but it's not worth the effort.,

I think you can if you really want to, it will take more effort than others, also you need to be quite vocal about wanting promotions, advertising yourself, shouting about how good you are. Question is, at what cost and is it worth it for you?

I think there are a lot of expectations in the working world, and the world in general, that just don't work for introverts but I also think people have a tendency to conflate introversion, shyness and social anxiety, and while they can all come as a package, they can also be very different things.

I'm very much an introvert - I need a LOT of alone time, I tend to focus inward a lot, and I find being around people too much very draining - I DEFINITELY recharge by being alone. I've always worked in jobs that require massive amounts of interaction with the public because even though I don't like being around people all the time, weirdly that's where my skills lie - to an outsider I'd definitely be seen as a people person! I also genuinely enjoy public speaking and do it daily at work(I'd have loved to have been an actor), I'm fairly confident and I'm happy to speak up when I need to. Working with people all the time absolutely exhausts me though and I find I don't want to do much on my days off - I would much PREFER a role where I wasn't interacting constantly!

I'm in a management role and recently went to a development day with other managers in my company where we did personality tests and discussed our results. Around half of us were introverts, including one of the directors - we knew we were anyway, but we didn't know the others were, if you see what I mean and I was very surprised by some of the people that were! It was actually really refreshing because I felt like it really helped us to understand each other and to know that there were others who understood us.

It can be done.
I am an introvert and in a very senior position at work - I've worked my way up to it within the same organisation.
I have to do public speaking, manage a large department etc.
I had to learn how to "play the game" and go against my natural character type to get there but I've done it. The downside is that I find work exhausting and need alone time to recharge, but for me working from home is a godsend. I work 50/50 office and home and the relative solitude of my home days are what enable me to be who I need to be in the office the rest of the time.

I did not do well in the office environment.
I did better in the warehouse.

Give me a pile of boxes to move from A to B and put labels on, leave me alone in the corner to get it done and I'll get it done happily and efficiently.

Put me in an office with other people and the cliques and the ass kissing and the smarmy ones. Nah, I can't do it. I called the head of sales a "smarmy cunt" in a meeting because he was banging on about his targets etc. It was a long meeting and I was frustrated and exhausted..
I didn't get many promotions after that..

Aha! I'm also autistic and have ADHD and I agree with this post.

I also reached middle management - but in a different field. No one would have ever guessed the toll it all took on me. I was very good at what I did but it was just bloody exhausting.

When I had my DC I realised that actually, I didn't want to do any of that shit any more. I had my DC in my mid-30s and I'd had my fill of having to deal with all of that corporate BS. And I'd had enough of lots of other things that weren't exclusive to my employer, or even my industry. I just didn't want to work for other people any more. I wanted more control over exactly what I do, and how I spend my working hours.

So for the last 13 years I've been self-employed. Don't get me wrong, there are other difficulties and frustrations, and there's still the need to build some relationships to succeed! But it's all on my own terms, and I can pick the types of contract that suit my strengths.

I don't ever regret walking away from a successful career to do my own thing. I earn less now, but I'm extremely happy.

Yes, Feminists and stay-at-home mums are thin on the ground around here.

/s

I agree with this. Open plan offices, drinks with colleagues, hot desking, daily team calls, long virtual meetings, it just goes on.

I’m lucky that I can fake it well enough to build good relationships with my colleagues. There are some situations I just can’t conquer though.

Presentations are the worst thing in the world and even with medication I tremble visibly and my mind can go completely blank. I’m planning to take one of the courses for this because it’s made me look so stupid in meetings. There are also times where for some reason I can’t get myself to physically talk to specific people, even when I really need to. There doesn’t even seem to be any rhyme or reason behind it.

I look at the Managers, Executive Managers and Executive General Managers at my company (Insurance). They are constantly in meetings, they need to articulately present information, they need to manage their staff, they need to talk to regulators, etc. part of the core responsibilities is this exact skill set.

If you don't have the skill set due to bring an introvert, then you need to develop a valued specialisation which is worth a lot of money. That's just the way it is. You can't complain about not getting a promotion if the job you want to be promoted to requires a skill set you don't have.

@Stompythedinosaur

I agree that confidence is important, but introverts don't necessarily lack confidence. I wonder if this is an area you can work on? If sounds a bit like your anxiety is getting in the way, which is something that can change, rather than your personality.

Is there any chance of getting a mentor at work who can coach you? It makes a big difference having someone who's on your side and can give honest feedback.
^^^^^^^^

THIS
I'm kinda of the middle.
And just got knocked back for promotion- while 3 of my younger co workers in the last yr all got up a grade.
Maybe it was because I was trying to jump up 2 grades, or maybe was face doesn't fit.
Of my 3 co workers , 2 were extroverts but one was a introvert , but very confident.
I am confident now but it's taken the last few years to get there, and 6 years under a new manager.
I do have bouts of anxiety though and I think that can put people off ....

You can do a fantastic job but it doesn't really matter if no one notices.

You have to self promote if you want the raises and promotions.

The best thing I ever did for my career, was a public speaking course . It gave me the confidence to speak in interviews, and in the work place. Obviously I'm still a total introvert and will never get top marks for sociability, but I can and do speak clearly and confidently when I have to.

Introversion is just about how you recharge. It’s got nothing to do with being socially awkward or anxious. There are confident, socially accomplished introverts and anxious, socially awkward extroverts.

100% this. I have seen so many loud talkers just spout on, completely missing the point. But those above seem happy with empty words. It's frustrating to watch.

Your post wasn’t empathetic to OP at all, are you sure you’re an empath?

It’s true and I wonder how my youngest child, a real introvert will cope with working. She’s only 15 but looking at career choices now as applying to 6th form soon and I think she needs to think carefully. I think everything in life is harder for her because she’s so shy / introverted. Shyness can come across as rudeness but she’s just happy to sit in a room and listen, she will answer when spoken to, but it’s rare in a group of people she will speak first. She’s not that shy with friends though, so I’m hoping that once she got settled into a role she would be ok.

Not all jobs have presentations, in my place there are jobs I’d consider more suitable for introverts, such as working on policy) rather than managing departments for example which does require you to be a bit extroverted. I think I’d struggle in my job (managing multiple teams over multiple locations) if I was an introvert as we have a big empathise on the people and I find being friendly and open (comes naturally to me as an extrovert) means staff are more likely to open up / like me.

Exactly.

OP, you are confusing introversion with shyness, timidity or anxiety.

I am a confident, sociable, socially-competent introvert who needs a lot of time alone to recharge, but nothing about my manner when around other people would suggest introversion unless I hadn’t had adequate solo time.

My job involves public speaking on a daily basis.

I think the introverts are sort of getting their way now with working from home. Many people are either at home or alone in the office.

I've also worked in a place where a quiet finance type got people into trouble for chatting, quite awful for those doing mind numbing work and shows that the introverts (or at least quiet people) are sometimes in charge.

I agree. I work in financial services. There are a huge number of v successful introverts, particularly on the portfolio management/ equity research side. Being introverted doesn’t mean that you are bad at or hate public speaking or don’t like people/ collaboration/ discussions.

But I agree with PP who have said that as you get more senior, the need to collaborate and coordinate gets greater. Being super competent isn’t enough if you won’t ever step outside your lane ( another problem with wfh is it makes it easier to get stuck within the strict confines of your job description). Plus we are human. Relationships are important. You’re more likely to do a favour for someone you know and like than someone who is just a name in your inbox. The better and greater your relationships, the easier it is to get stuff done/ break deadlocks and the more competent you look.

That’s helpful.

I'm an autistic and about to do a masters in finance with a focus on financial inequality for autistic people (I'm autistic).

85% of autistic people are unemployed. Of the 15% that are employed almost all of them are under employed based on qualifications and experience, tenure of contract or hours available to work.

Absolutely. I have always battled in conventional workplaces, and get incredibly frustrated that success or failure is determined by how likeable or chummy people are with each other. As someone with a huge capacity for work but easily overwhelmed or drained by other people it is infuriating. I now work for myself. I’ve basically engineered a situation that suits me and as a result I and the business (it’s a charity) are doing well.

I don't know. Yes, pushy people get further, but you can be pushy and introverted.

I don't need to be the centre of attention in the workplace and I certainly don't do people well (which is always funny in a people-centric job), but I rarely get passed up for promotion. I just make sure that people know I do my job well in quiet ways. A CC into an email here, a 1:1 chat with the boss there. In large meetings, I don't put myself forward until I am convinced that what I have to say adds value, and even then it takes effort. I say no when I mean it.

I am exhausted at the end of every day from interactions, but then recharge for the next day.

It's important to have your own values and boundaries and to communicate in ways which feel more comfortable for you.

But being introverted =/= being shy. It just means that while other people think out loud and have a large social battery, us introverted types think introspectively and get exhausted from people relatively quickly.