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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To dislike describing a very ill person as a "fighter"?

102 replies

whatnexttt · 09/09/2023 18:14

Both my parents have now died of cancer and I remember this being a term that irritated both of them since the first cancer diagnosis in our family in the nineties.

It's now used for loads of illnesses, including an autoimmune illness I myself have, and I still deeply dislike it. It just seems geared towards trying to make people shut up and not talk about the distressing sides of shitty illnesses - because "fighters" are brave and dignified and tough, right?

And I know it's just one of those things that people say without thinking, but by calling someone a fighter you are implying that there are also people who are not fighters, who are obviously doing illness wrong. It all feeds back into the way people who are not healthy try to rationalise devastating illness and death, and comfort themselves that it will never happen to them or their loved ones. But everyone dies, eventually. It is not a character flaw!

Why is this still inane "fighter" bollocks trotted out so much at people who are sick and sometimes even dying?

OP posts:
WeWereInParis · 09/09/2023 19:05

YANBU. I feel the same when people say things along the lines of "I knew she'd never let cancer beat her".

What the actual fuck are you talking about.

FakeFool · 09/09/2023 19:09

Yanbu
I really dislike it too. Why do people have to fight and be brave. I'd imagine if you had cancer that there might be times when you don't want to fidget and be brave. I imagine there would be times when you want to moan and feel extremely sorry for yourself.

My Dad died of cancer and I noticed nobody actually mentioned anything to do with fighting cancer or being brave around him or about him. He actually dealt with it in a way that did make it easier for the rest of the family. He was straightforward and factual. If he felt shite he said he felt shite and if he was feeling ok he would say so. I found it easier than if he was trying to be 'brave' and pretending to be ok.

Aqua20 · 09/09/2023 19:13

I totally agree. I had a heart transplant and got loads of messages describing me as a fighter, brave, warrior. It's not like I was given a choice, what was the alternative? I had to do it for my child. And in all realness, I went to sleep and woke up with a new heart. It's absolutely changed my whole life and I'm very grateful for my donor.

Cosyblankets · 09/09/2023 19:21

I hate it too.
They're so strong.
They're so brave.
Like anyone has any control whatsoever.
There was no one stronger than my mum! She didn't stand a chance. Also terminal at diagnosis.
Are people who die not strong or brave?

MoxieFox · 09/09/2023 19:31

I don’t mind it. I have had cancer. I have also been shot at. I think calling us fighters and it a battle is not that bad of a comparison because in both situations there is very little control or agency over whether you live or die. Just like you don’t know if the cancer will win, you don’t know if a bullet has your name on it.

MrsKwazi · 09/09/2023 19:35

Yanbu op i hate it too

tillytoodles1 · 09/09/2023 19:42

334bu · 09/09/2023 18:18

Made me very angry when my husband was dying with cancer, as it implied that he wasn't " trying" hard enough.

Same here. Mum died of cancer and I get really annoyed when people say that

poolviewthanks · 09/09/2023 19:46

Stephen fry talks about exactly this (and so eloquently of course) in a few interviews I've heard. He had cancer and was frustrated with that type of language as he said there is no battle, no fight, it is more of a lying down and resigning to being poked and prodded by various doctors in the hope that your ravaged body might be fixed.

WorriedMillie · 09/09/2023 19:49

I work in the cancer field. Some people hate this terminology, some people love it. I’m always sensitive to how the individual describes themselves

JamieJ93 · 09/09/2023 19:50

Oh god yes it annoys me! I was critically ill in intensive care ( coma) for 8 weeks start of this year. It took me a further 2 months to walk again ( I was also in a coma for 6 weeks in 2020) and the amount of times I've been called a "fighter" oh it makes me cringe. So patronising

itsmyp4rty · 09/09/2023 19:53

I think YABU, it's just a nice thing that people say in a very difficult time. Not something that needs overthinking.

lookingforMolly · 09/09/2023 19:56

My Mum is sadly dying of a large cancerous tumour in her abdomen plus metastatic cancer.
I've heard some trite but well meaning shite but what really angered me is when a colleague told me that basically cancer could be cured with positive thinking and a mate of hers who is into 'Reiki' had proved it.

No one could have been a more positive thinking patient than my mum at the start of her illness on February but you can't think away a massive tumour, sorry.

Original poster
whatnexttt · 09/09/2023 19:58

itsmyp4rty · 09/09/2023 19:53

I think YABU, it's just a nice thing that people say in a very difficult time. Not something that needs overthinking.

This is dismissive.

Quite a few people dislike it. It's not overthinking to be mindful about the words you use when chatting with somebody who is indeed in a very difficult time.

I really don't think it is a nice thing, personally. I think it's unhelpful as a concept.

It should be questioned and not automatically assumed to be a benign thing to say.

OP posts:
CarPour · 09/09/2023 19:59

Yes I agree. One of my best friends died of a chronic illness quite young, and it was very much described she lost her battle. Lots of SM posts described her as a fighter. It made me so angry

And dont get me wrong she was a very strong person in many ways. But it wasnt a battle or a fight. She had no choice to live the life she did. She would never have 'won'. She was going to be ill her whole life. And it implies that she gave up, or she lost, or was weak in the end. Or she decided to die.

And a lot of time was spent in pain, being very unwell, taking lots of meds to try and dull some of the symptoms. She wasn't fighting in those moments she was just trying to get through without suffering too much. And I'm sure she would have been perfectly happy to not have to 'fight'.

aspirationalflamingo · 09/09/2023 20:00

Neuronamechange · 09/09/2023 18:57

Hit send too soon!
Due to worsening health, I’ve been thinking about this issue a lot this week. I acknowledge that I have a strong character and that my determined nature has helped me push through so many rough times but the “Brave” label put on me by others is such a burden. It’s exhausting and makes it so much harder to ask for help.
Being called brave, cheerful and positive over what is essentially very bad luck leaves you no scope to be worried, sad and frightened without feeling like you are letting others down.

Yes, this is also why it enrages me the way the media only elevate the stories of the "brave" "positive" people with serious or terminal illness. It has a toxic and chilling effect on the vast majority of people who experience a range of difficult and complex emotions rather than being a relentlessly cheerful caricature.

aspirationalflamingo · 09/09/2023 20:01

itsmyp4rty · 09/09/2023 19:53

I think YABU, it's just a nice thing that people say in a very difficult time. Not something that needs overthinking.

It's not a "nice" thing to say though, that's the point. It's hurtful and damaging.

SallyWD · 09/09/2023 20:03

I dislike it too. I had cancer and never once felt like I was fighting it. I was just very scared and going along with any treatment options the doctors said I should have. I was completely passive really! I mean how do you "fight" it?

lookingforMolly · 09/09/2023 20:04

Also my own dad (my parents are divorced) always feels he has to say something to comfort me when I'm upset about mum's cancer so searches his mind for random platitudes about illness & dying which winds me up no end, I've now had to say, Dad, I appreciate the sentiment but just listen when I'm upset please, don't feel you have to say something.

OvertakenByLego · 09/09/2023 20:04

Just like you don’t know if the cancer will win

Some people very much do know and it is dismissive to post otherwise. For some (cancer and other conditions) there is only ever one ‘winner’.

MidnightOnceMore · 09/09/2023 20:04

I agree, I think it's belittling.

If someone defines themselves that way I respect it of course but I wouldn't use it otherwise.

RosaElize · 09/09/2023 20:04

I completely agree that we should take our lead from the language the patient uses, but yes generally dislike the framing of it as a battle to win or lose…

I think i’m a very emotional person but I became super pragmatic when my dad was dying in his 50’s, and I couldn’t bear people saying things like “he’ll pull through” or had he heard of XYZ….
He had multiple inoperable brain tumours and the fact was that nothing he or modern medicine could do would’ve saved his life… people find it very difficult socially to sit with that discomfort but actually that is a grace we should afford the about-to-be-bereaved and something I am very consciously aware of now with others

Vallmo47 · 09/09/2023 20:06

I understand OP. Some people use it about their own illness however and then it’s obviously okay, it’s how they are looking at it themselves. When my mum died after a 10 week long battle people said they were relieved she had died with her dignity - that was after 10 weeks of not being able to move and having the staff do everything for her as she was pretty much paralysed. That still haunts me 16 years later - dignity? Fuck dignity, bring back my mum. She had more dignity than anyone I’ve ever known.

This topic is a minefield and there are no good words to use other than “I’m very sorry”.

CarPour · 09/09/2023 20:06

That's the thing it implies that had she been stronger, or had she fought a little harder she would still be here

But really she had a pretty devastating life long illness that destroyed her body. She had no choice but to live with pain she didn't bloody enjoy it. And I mean you can't put that in a Facebook post but chronically ill people/people with cancer don't have to fight or be positive or be strong.

You can't cure cancer with strong will. Its a combination of luck but mostly medical treatment that has taken many years to develop and will take affect or not regardless of how strong you are.

Terrribletwos · 09/09/2023 20:07

I hate it! Kinda reminds me of when I had a severely disabled child and people used to say " I wouldn't have it any other way" or "everything happens for a reason"
The latter used to really annoy me!

Jmaho · 09/09/2023 20:07

Yes i agree. My dad recently died from cancer in a short time frame from diagnosis. He didn't die because he didn't fight or he lost the battle. He died because his body was ravaged by cancer and he felt so sick he just couldn't keep any food down so he lost weight and was so weak. Added to that he was losing a lot of blood so had severe anaemia which they just couldn't get under control
A close family member commented that he gave up and lost his will and it made my blood boil. He didn't want to die. He wasn't ready to die. He fought as hard as he could but he just couldn't overcome it