Do you agree with school or the parents?

[Watermelon44]

Our high school has made the news because of a uniform dispute between (some) parents and the head who is recently in post.

The gist of it is that the school brought in a new rule in April that they were no longer allowing black leather trainers (eg superstars or nike air force) and instead the kids should be in smart plain black leather office shoes.

This appears to have caused ww3 with some parents, who despite having many months notice, still sent their kids in the banned trainers (100+ children apparently). The school has stuck to its guns and has isolated and then suspended those in the wrong shoes if they refused to comply.

The school has also banned girls from wearing socks, and have enforced a thick tights ruling, although socks are allowed in the summer term and if allowed by the head in any warm spells (eg the past 3 days).

Personally I think the tights ruling is worse and I have mixed views on the trainers rule.

I am interested in the real reasons behind these strict uniform rules as I feel if the real reasons were shared with parents they may be more on board with them, rather than the usual rubbish about dressing professionally eg like in an office, when my dp works in a head office in London and goes in jeans and trainers!

As this seems to have whipped up a storm locally, I am interested in other people’s views on this topic as some of the parents round here seem to have gone totally bats*it over it!!

Nurses have to wear tights under their dresses unless senior management give permission in hot weather but they have to ask or await an announcement. I was absolutely stunned when I learned this. I’m happy re school rules to say no trainers because I agree they do not look smart. One school round here does allow them and it’s the school that gets the worst grades. Not saying it’s linked but that school also has a reputation for not dealing with bullying or bossy parents.

@tammie49 My DDs attended a pretty expensive girls’ boarding school. Aside from the uniform cost (which we expected) the school had pullovers and open neck cotton shirts for the girls. I don’t see why all DC cannot wear shirts and skirt/trousers with blazer or pullover. I just don’t see the need for cheap nasty blazers.

I also find it odd that parents complain of costs but happily buy £100 trainers.

Schools need a uniform that most parents and DC find ok. You will always have girls rolling up skirts. As long as they are not also wearing a thong, does it matter? There is modest underwear available and maybe educate boys not to leer?

🙄That's your opinion. Clearly not the young girls'. My daughter and all her friends are nice sensible girls who like trendy young clothes. Making them wear knee-length ugly skirts all day is not going to make them learn better. No one will tell them what to wear when they're in College/uni, so why is it such a huge deal now? Honestly, schools should concentrate on the quality of their teaching and their anti-bullying policies rather than this nonsense about uniforms, especially since most of the world doesn't even have any school uniforms (and they always beat the UK kids in international competitions).

Also control.

@XelaM So when did trendy and nice apply to a school uniform? Learning that you don’t get your own way all the time is valuable. Short skirts and upskirting are an issue though and schools are trying to avoid it. As I said though, boys need training! As I also noted, underwear can be very skimpy and fashionable. Is that ok with the trendy short skirt? Which incidentally is not fashionable at the moment!!

Sounds like the start of term at our local comprehensive.

Schoolin special measures, new headteacher has said no trainer type shoes...day one of term 200 children in detention fir wearing incorrect shoes. Staff were sent out to buy new shoes (ballet type and slip ons for boys). So now if you wear incorrect shoes you have to wear the schools' and give them back at the end of the day.

I understand there is also a problem with school skirts being too short. But was already a rule in place that skirts were to be no shorter than two inches above the knee.

The obsession with school uniforms in the UK is utterly mad if you ask me. And no I do not believe that if all uniforms were banned kids would go head to head over who wears the most designer gear- in 90% of the world kids don’t wear uniforms and just wear totally normal comfy clothes to school (jeans, trainers, leggings etc). Just like they will when they go to uni, in some cases a few months after leaving school.

But, and it’s a big but, if you send your kid to a school with these rules then within reason you have to abide by them (subject to appropriate challenge, like asking for justification on particularly odd stuff like the rights rule). If it’s to do with skirt length then why don’t they just say knee length skirts and be done with it?

Hrtft, but I seem to differ with many. I don't get the shoes thing, plain, black trainers are fine. Comfortable. Footwear should be a basic right. Do we want our kids to concentrate or not. I don't mean flashy, stupid trainers but black airforces ( maybe without the silver tag?) should be fine.

The trouble with these antiquated rules is that they don't make sense anymore. I'm all for uniform, I like the kids to look tidy but we need to stop being so arbitrary about it.

This is ridiculously naive. We don't all get to choose between schools and even if we do not all schools are equal. Strict uniform policy ( that insist on pupils being uncomfortable ) is just one anachronistic remnant of past standards. It is entirely unrelated to the other we elements we rate our schools by.
I work in secondary education in a school that has just received outstanding, in every category,

Well that's easy for a person to say for whom school shoes do not pose a problem. However, for many of the rest of the population, who do have varying discomforts / issues, it is irrelevant what your children did not suffer.

But it's so naive to say that seeing an almost naked bum is no different to seeing a, shoulder ir ankle... It's really not. It goes with saying that no boy should touch inappropriately or enen really comment. However, we have teenage girls who enjoy dressing in this way and like the attention it probably brings. Teenage boys meanwhile are expected to not even notice almosr everything being put on display. Would it be okay for boys to go in wearing skintight shorts then?

I always find it hilarious when the whole ‘kids in other countries have no uniform and can still learn trope’. Watch most American teen dramas and most have episodes where the teachers are measuring skirt lengths, sending kids to detention for inappropriate crop tops or boys for wearing T-shirts with political logos. It’s world wide, if we had no uniform, a large percentage of girls would come to school in whatever was fashionable, so very short skirts or skin tight leggings, and sports bras rather than comfortable clothes, it’s what teens do.
It would make more sense to get rid of skirts altogether and have shorts or trousers be the uniform. A plain white Polo with schools logo, with sweatshirt/wool jumper for winter for both sexes. Sell the badge separately, so you can buy them from anywhere as long as correct colours.

I don't agree with the shoe rule but would accept it, disagree with the tights rule and we had similar after all the schools around here were turned into academies. Unfortunately the one dd was at was strict with the 60 denier tights rule, you could wear trousers but they were one specific type and uncomfortable.

I always find it hilarious when the whole ‘kids in other countries have no uniform and can still learn trope’. Watch most American teen dramas and most have episodes where the teachers are measuring skirt lengths, sending kids to detention for inappropriate crop tops or boys for wearing T-shirts with political logos.

Probably* *best not to base your idea of what goes on in schools on what happens in teen dramas. I was one of the posters who 'hilariously' commented about kids in other countries getting on fine in school without uniform. My knowledge of this isn't based on tv shows, it's based on having spent time in schools in a couple of different countries and having discussed this with colleagues who have taught in quite a lot of other countries.

I can't think when I last saw a nurse in a dress. The uniform round here seems to be a tunic and trousers.

@Sugarfree23 it’s a real mix where I work. Many in dresses.

Exactly.

At the school I went to in a econdary school/ high school in the States, every student had a handbook of the school rules that had a diary in the back to put your class schedule, homework, projects, etc.. and we were supposed to carry it around daily. One of the first pages was the dress code. Every student had to sign their name on a form saying they read and understood the handbook before school started so anyone caught breaking the dress code couldn’t say they didn’t know what was in it. Never encountered or saw a ruler ever being brought out to measure skirt lengths. Tbh, it was often the boys who were in trouble for breaking the dress code and it was easily fixed by having you wear your pe clothes. Very rare for anyone to be sent home over what they were wearing because it was ridiculous. I would say 95% of students mainly wore jeans and a top of some sort. Still do now from what I’ve seen in pictures from my friends who are teachers there.

I grew up in Germany but also spent two years in an American high school when my parents moved for work. I can tell you with certainty that no one has ever measured the length of my skirt - ever, nor did the teachers care about what T-shirts anyone wore.

We somehow all managed to pass exams regardless.

@XelaM so this didn’t happen then ?
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/sep/24/us-high-schools-dress-codes-protest-sexism-hemline

DGS would fall foul of the no trainers rule. He is ND and cannot stand heavy shoes. He wears plain black trainers from Clarks, the lightest boys’ shoes they have, and they are totally indistinguishable from ‘proper’ shoes except on very close inspection. I cannot see the problem with plain, black, unbranded trainers.

Cracking bit of whataboutery there.

@XelaM I think you were probably quite lucky to be honest. The fingertip length skirt rule and no visible shoulders is a very common rule in US High schools.

it’s zero to do with whataboutery. It’s stating that other countries also have issues in deciding what is appropriate school wear for teenagers. I may have mentioned teen dramas in my first post, but actually my interest in this actually stems from academic research into the death penalty and how culturally things are changing internationally. I keep an eye on the ACLU and was interested in the protests against patriarchal school dress codes and more recently the concept of political free speech in school dress, hence mentioning boys getting in trouble for political slogans on T-shirts .

A friend of mine was complaining last year that her daughter’s high school actually measured the strap width on her daughters vest top on a hot day. I’ll have to tell her that according to mumsnet that never happened.

Every year though isn't it! DP thinks they should go back to no uniforms. Personally I don't!!

It's about following rules, that's the uniform policy. Whether you agree or not, if you send your child to the school you should not undermine the school enforcing the school rules.