Do you agree with school or the parents?

[Watermelon44]

Our high school has made the news because of a uniform dispute between (some) parents and the head who is recently in post.

The gist of it is that the school brought in a new rule in April that they were no longer allowing black leather trainers (eg superstars or nike air force) and instead the kids should be in smart plain black leather office shoes.

This appears to have caused ww3 with some parents, who despite having many months notice, still sent their kids in the banned trainers (100+ children apparently). The school has stuck to its guns and has isolated and then suspended those in the wrong shoes if they refused to comply.

The school has also banned girls from wearing socks, and have enforced a thick tights ruling, although socks are allowed in the summer term and if allowed by the head in any warm spells (eg the past 3 days).

Personally I think the tights ruling is worse and I have mixed views on the trainers rule.

I am interested in the real reasons behind these strict uniform rules as I feel if the real reasons were shared with parents they may be more on board with them, rather than the usual rubbish about dressing professionally eg like in an office, when my dp works in a head office in London and goes in jeans and trainers!

As this seems to have whipped up a storm locally, I am interested in other people’s views on this topic as some of the parents round here seem to have gone totally bats*it over it!!

The main bit that gets me about uniform policy actually though, is kids having to ask what layers they are allowed to take off in hot weather.

We want young people to become independent, to take responsibility but we don’t trust them to know whether they’re too hot or not?!

And if we’re saying uniform is about workplace standards, what work place do you have to ask permission to take your cardigan off?!

At my kids school they aren't allowed to remove their jumpers without permission. So you get the situation of teachers in shirtsleeves telling kids it isn't hot so they have to keep their jumpers on! How keeping kids uncomfortable benefits their learning in any way just beggars belief to me.

Crosspost 0021andabit. It's completely nuts!

I really don't get this thing about needing permission to take off a jumper or blazer. Can we really not trust children to make their own judgment about whether they're too cold or hot? Why would you deliberately make it difficult for them to concentrate because they can't help thinking about how hot they are? When I was at school it was left completely to us whether we wore jumpers and/or blazers in class, and that was a school which was pretty strong on discipline.

It's perfectly simple for schools to deal with this. Either have trousers as uniform for all pupils, or abolish uniform altogether.

They definitely can't take the moral high ground in this situation give that having expensive branded uniform is directly contrary to government guidance.

What always irritates me is that the schools that do this are invariably the ones who claim that it's essential for good discipline, children must learn to follow the rules yadda yadda. But they're not following the rules themselves, so they are setting a dreadful example.

Shoe rules make sense, totally support.

Tight rule is stupid and I would be very uncomfortable enforcing it, I personally hate them and scratch my legs raw on the occasion I've tried to wear them, trousers and socks for me or long skirt with bear legs. I'm conflicted on whether I'd support it in a school but presumably I'd just use trousers and socks to avoid conflict?

So I wouldn't undermine the school on it. But neither would I be happy to wear tights.

I still remember my first day of secondary school because I was absolutely petrified. Sending kids home on their first day is extremely harsh given it might not be their fault that they don't have the right stuff - it's likely their parents who have bought their uniform. What a way to start a new school.

At my school it's just on corridors and they can be removed in class (but they're meant to ask me first).

What’s the reasoning behind them having to wear them in corridors? Genuinely curious as there was nothing like this when I was at school & I can’t really work out the logic, but maybe there’s something I’m missing…

When I started teaching that's what we had and they changed to blazers after some students requested it as they thought they looked smarter. No jumper though which meant that in the winter they all put hoodies under their blazers. I quite like the v-neck jumper, tie and shirt-type uniform (even though ties are ridiculous). I think it's odd when they look like they're off to the boardroom.

It's absolutely insane.

Yes, It's sad it's necessary but if girls persist in wearing tubes as skirts then it's needed.

Realistically where are teenage boys supposed to look if their are bare arses everywhere? Leering isn't on but you can't help seeing. Let's face it, walk down any uk street and you'll see shorts so short and tight that they may as well be ill fitting knickers and you can't help seeing. Are the boys supposed to walk around school blindfolded so the girls can happily wear as little as they like? Must the boys walk upstairs with downcast eyes? People don't like admitting it but girls are wearing these skirts to attract male, attention. What other reason to wear a skirt so short you can see underwear?

@Bbq1, no one is saying they should walk around with their eyes closed. What we're saying is that there shouldn't be a difference between seeing a bit of bum cheek to a shoulder, or ankle. Knickers cover the genitals, that's their purpose. Boys shouldn't use seeing a body part they consider "sexual" (which varies across age group, cultures and personal opinion) with the right to touch or behave inappropriately.

🙄it's really not! Wearing a short skirt to look pretty has zero to do with anyone's learning. I wish schools would focus as much effort on enforcing anti-bullying rules as they do with uniform

I don't know how the rest of the world copes without any uniform rules. I went to school in Germany and we didn't have any uniform (shock horror). Still somehow we all managed to learn and pass exams. I also don't see Oxbridge students wearing uniform. How can they possibly learn anything?

This seems even worse than having to keep blazers on. You could argue that a blazer is the equivalent of a smart jacket that some still wear at work. The only purpose of a jumper is to keep you warm, so nobody needs a jumper in this weather!

I don’t think that’s true. When I’ve been in England, I’ve seen girls on their way to all girls schools wearing skirts barely longer than their blazers. Seems something that girls in uniform schools do. Perhaps just because it annoys the adults!

DS hated wearing anything with long sleeves in school due to sensory problems, he still does. They liked the pupils to wear the school sweatshirts in class, essentially so that everyone looked the same. I got really tired of pointing out the duty to make reasonable adjustments and, at one parents' evening when they had a moan about it, I ended up saying "You know what? I really don't care. This is an utterly pointless rule, whilst your duty to make reasonable adjustments is the law." And I refused to discuss it further. I think that finally prompted them to make a note on his records because they left the issue alone after that.

It’s like I said yesterday on my post, it’s all about controlling children and young people. School is becoming irrelevant in this modern digital world and they’re losing their grip. So they tighten their control. So sad.

@XelaM you absolutely do not need a short skirt to look pretty. God help teenage girls who grow up listening to this rubbish 🙄

But as you wrote, the strict uniform was only part of the changes brought in by the new Head. At my DCs' school strict uniform was the only 'improvement' the new Head brought in.

In the year my eldest took her GCSEs the school achieved 4% 5 GCSEs A-C. This was achieved by total failure of the SLT.

What was it about 50 odd years ago when I was at a grammar school with strict uniform rules?

My dc is at the same school - I fully support the shoes rule.

Re the tights I would have moved to all dc in a choice of trousers or knee length school shorts - unfortunately the wish to roll up the skirts means either they need tights or something like cycling shorts underneath.

Re the hot weather - this school has allowed all dc to wear pe kits in the hot weather and for girls that is shorts or a skort