Strained relations with Adult DC

[Suzyinpain]

Name changed for this. Posting for help and traffic.

I need help to word a message to begin to put things right.

Background that I think may be relevant:
I had a very strained relationship with my mother who I felt was controlling.
I have tried very hard not to repeat this with my own DC.
Adult DD lives a very long way away from me. we are both in the UK.
I see her maybe twice a year. Manly DH (her father) and I travel to her.
She rarely "comes home" mainly due to her work.
She is single, always has been, childfree, living in a house share in her mid / late 30s.

In June we were meeting up at a family wedding. Chatting on Whatsapp - she had seen an outfit she really liked. Slightly more than her usual budget, but not extortionately so. She was debating whether to buy it or go for a less expensive (and in my opinion less suitable) outfit, or continue to look.
Without asking her, I transferred half the cost of the more expensive outfit. I honestly thought that that would help her to choose. I could afford it and wanted her to have a treat, a little less financial stress but no strings. I stated that it was in case it helped her to decide and to feel free to just spend it on Prosecco if she would rather.
Obviously I was wrong to do this- She accused me of coercing her and being controlling. exactly the things I felt my mum did to me. The money was returned.
I was very hurt and I am still upset. When I reflected on my behaviour I realise I'm not upset that the money was returned, but because of the accusations. Being coercive and controlling is the main thing I have feared all my life.

We had one message exchange after I sent the money. Her message returning it accused me of trying to control her choices. She recognised I meant things kindly but I should have asked and waited for a response from her before "taking control". She hoped it wouldn't spoil our planned family wedding but we really need to have a think about how to avoid the situation in future.
I apologised, recognised I had got it wrong and that it could be perceived differently.
We met at the wedding. Things were slightly strained but friendly. It wasn't the place to try to sort the "elephant" out. We've not had any contact since, although she's in regular contact with her DF.
I am still hurting. So is she. She has told DH that she doesn't want to stay with us when she comes to our city for a friends significant birthday because of this.
DH has suggested I try to write to her.

Thank you for making it this far.
I know I was wrong. I don't know if I've done anything previously / regularly to cause her to make this accusation. We both obviously want to sort things out. I just don't know where to start. I am not good at expressing myself in words - but she really is. Please help.

I see it. OP, your DD felt that you were coercing her into choosing the dress you liked. Were you? Think hard here and be honest with yourself.

The better way might have been to say "they're both lovely, but if you prefer the more expensive and are worried about the price, I'd love to help - let me know". Or even wait until she'd chosen, and then if she'd chosen the more expensive one, move the money saying you knew she'd stretched herself for it and didn't want her to be overstretched.

What jumped out to me is that you chose to describe your daughter as ''She is single, always has been, childfree, living in a house share in her mid / late 30s.''

I can't help but feel that there is a hint of criticism from you in the above suggesting that you think that your daughter has not had the life you expected to her to have by that age (partner & house of her own).

I wonder if your daughter is picking up on this and she feels that your financial generosity comes with a price: she gets the feeling that you basically think she is not capable of looking after herself/has not done well in life and you are unconsciously trying to maintain dependency and infantilise her with financial gifts.

Maybe because you did not have a positive and healthy experience of your own when it comes to parent/children relationship you are still not being able to accept your daughter as she is and are coming on too strong/controlling and you might not even be aware of how you come across.

You obviously care and wants to fix it so maybe speak to someone outside the family (counsellor) to help you work through the issues.

I also doubt very much that you daughter has always been single at that age, she simply chose not to talk to you about her emotional life or there is something there as well that she thinks you would not welcome.

For whatever reasons your daughter seems to have chosen to put physical and emotional distance between you so there has to been a back story here...

I hate the assumption a lot of people are making that the OP must be in the wrong. She might be- but it is also possible that her daughter is being unpleasant. A possibility Mumsnet doesn't tend to consider.

I left it with a comment about needing to work out how to move on and work out how to prevent this happening again.

You ask her.

"I'd like to understand your perspective on this. I thought I was doing something helpful but I can see you felt it was controlling and I can understand why. I'm sorry for that. What would work for you in future? Is there a way I could have offered the money without you feelling controlled? I'd like you to know I'd love to help you if I can, but would it be best if I wait for you to ask first?"

You don't need to spend months "crying uncontrollably" and building up the strength to have this conversation, you just need to have the desire to actually connect with your daughter, which means listening to her properly and accepting that sometimes she may things that are totally different to what you want. If you genuinely want a relationship with her, you'll find a way to accept her without trying to make her into a version of you.

I did assume that because the OP is on eggshells around her.

Well we've figured out she's a liar pretty quickly

Her post is pretty passive aggressive

And she admits she's not been the best mother and her daughter has been quite adult and sensible with her approach

What screams out to me is how much casual judgment of your daughter there is in your post. The way you talk about the "less appropriate" outfit, and how you casually drop in that she is single, childless and living in a house share in her late thirties - all completely irrelevant to the issue you are posting about, but by dropping them in it speaks volumes about your disappointment in her.

I wonder how often your judgment and disappointment has leaked into your interactions with her over the years.

Is it possible that she is far more aware of this than you think, she has picked up on all these little micro-aggressions, and has understandably distanced herself (emotionally and geographically) from the damage that.your casual digs may have caused?

You say you understand that you have got things wrong, yet you are very focused on how hurt YOU are, and I get the impression that you dont really think you did anything wrong here, and are not willing to see where she is coming from.

If you were genuinely sorry, maybe ask yourself why you stopped communicating? It strikes me that by you not speaking to her in 3 months since your initial apology, you are effectively punishing her for being open about how your actions came across. You may have apologised initially but since then you have been sending a different message loud and clear by your continued silence. You might not realise it but this comes across as very controlling behaviour.

My mother did exactly the same and it was extremely damaging.

In a normal, loving, mother-daughter relationship your act of transferring the money would be fine, a lovely gesture, with no strings attached. But you clearly have a very different relationship, and there is clearly much more to this than you describe. I think you need to be willing to listen to your daughter's perspective on what those issues are.

You need to have that difficult conversation and not punish her for being open with you if there are things you may not like to hear.

I f you read my post about eggshells I said that I don’t want to be walking on eggshells every time I open my mouth in what I perceive as a family chat where opinions are being expressed. Not that I walk on eggshells around her.
We obviously use different language around being single. I am old. In my circle being single involves not being in a long term live-in committed partnership with someone. She has had boyfriends. She chooses not to commit. That’s being single in my language. Obviously not yours. No contradiction here in my opinion.
In my first post I said I accepted it was my fault. No attempt to get out of it.
No attempt to lie.
I wanted honest help in return for my honesty. Lack of honesty wouldn’t give me an honest way forward. I didn’t want my life, integrity and character dissecting for your entertainment. More importantly I don’t want my daughters life choices to be picked over. She hasn’t consented to that, even anonymously. I am not giving you unrestricted access to the minutiae of everything that has happened since I was born for you to mock and gossip about.
I asked you answered. That’s the end . I have the answers, help and advice I need even though it’s not been an easy read.

So what help are you going to get op?

This is all on you. You're very controlling. Even if you don't like the way things are going on your thread...

Even your clarification confirms this. You called her always single because YOU don't deem her long term relationships as counting because they weren't living together. I bet that came across loud and clear to your daughter.

I think she's had enough. And unless you wise up and admit to yourself what role your behaviour has played it won't get any better.

More importantly I don’t want my daughters life choices to be picked over. She hasn’t consented to that, even anonymously.

Literally nobody has done that or attempted to so no need to work up a drama around it.

I am not giving you unrestricted access to the minutiae of everything that has happened since I was born for you to mock and gossip about.

Asking for more context about your relationship with your daughter isn’t the same as what you’ve just made out.

Seems to me that you quite like to make everything into a huge drama with you at the centre as the victim.

You need to speak to her @Suzyinpain . Not as a victim or a martyr just speak to her. Hear what she has to say and say your own part. I’m going to own my shit here but honesty I’ve had versions of this with my DD. I am NC with my family and at times I’ve parented out of severe guilt and from my DD’s perspective I have been the martyr/victim type. Also I do hear criticism and judgement in what you have written and I can be so guilty of this too and like you that is bleeding down from my own mother who had her own significant unaddressed issues with all of this stuff.

I have done some serious work on these failings of mine and when these clashes happen I hear DD out, absolutely refuse to let myself get defensive, explain my own perspective and invariably we leave the rows feeling in a much better place with our relationship.

absolutely this.

Wow, true colours shining through with every subsequent answer, OP. Twisting other posters words to suit your hurt narrative and refusing to actually listen to people’s reasons as to why your daughter saw this as controlling.

I can see why she might be mildly irritated. Carrying that in past the return of money and "please don't do that again" is wildly over-sensitive. Often the OP responses clearly show up other examples of behaviour indicating a back story, but I can't see it here. I can see how you're stuck here OP, all I'd do is phone up and work into the conversation "I'm sorry, I made a spur of the moment attempt to be kind that was badly misjudged. I apologised at the time, and I've told you that I don't do that again. It's now been 3 months, and I'm unclear about what else I can do." Let her respond, and be ready to say "I'd like us to put this behind us please."

My DM used to assume what I need (since she treated me as an extension of herself) and prioritise that over her wants and needs - then getting resentful that I was not grateful. But really she was just in a dialogue with herself the whole time. She too was trying to do better than her own critical DM. However the mistake was not to see me as my own person. Does this ring true at all? It's a bit of a reach but based on the snippet you posted about even having an opinion on the appropriateness of a wedding outfit.

You were wrong to transfer the money without her ok. It CAN say 'you can't cope, I'm your saviour'

Sit down with her and take on board EVERYTHING she says. Take notes , literally, and please don't be defensive

You are trying not to be like your Mother, but trust me, you will fail a lot (I do too) and in the little forgotten ways

"Her response was a very half hearted “sorry if you feel that way but..”

@Suzyinpain we can only guess at what's going on from what you've shared, but I would suggest, if you want a restore relationship with your daughter, you go bak and rea what comes after that " but" in her message. Then read it again, sit with it, let yourself understand he words.
At first I thought you had left off the rest of her message because it painted you in a bad light. But now I think you're defending against wha she's telling you, you can't let thos words in. She's telling you why she hasn't been in contact with you, why she doesn't want to see you when she visits your town next month.
I doubt it's to do with the outfit and the money. You've seized on tha as an explanation and keep apologising for it. She has told you what is going on for her, after that "but".

Yes, this.

Unfortunately ( and good that you recognise) but your gesture is passive aggressive. You have made a judgement about what she should wear, probably hit a couple of nerves with her too ( what will mum think? and her own thoughts ‘ is thus outfit suitable) - you played into all sorts of judgements - possibly previous history too?

I know how difficult it is too with adult DC’s, I have one where it is a very fine line, yet not the others.

'''(and in my opinion less suitable) outfit'''

This is EXACTLY what I mean by the little forgotten ways

There must be a huge backstory to this because I think what @Suzyinpain did was a lovely gesture.

my “little forgotten way” of mentioning I thought an outfit suited her better was in the context of a family discussion in which the majority of us agreed it was the better option for her, really suited her and looked great. It was an outfit for a wedding, a conversation about what we were all thinking of wearing. Showing each other possible choices and colours. I liked one outfit more than another. She was asking for opinions. No more no less. I believed, as many of you recognise, that when she mentioned the cost it was a hint. I misread it. My bad. I apologised. Maybe she read it as passive aggressive, infantilising, condescending, controlling , yet another way of me exerting coercive control. Maybe I was just trying to be kind and it backfired. Maybe I deserve it. Maybe not. Maybe we were both just being too sensitive.

I don’t know why people consider that I think she’s failed or should conform to a set lifestyle? I’ve never suggested that. I had her lifestyle once, I loved it, loved being (what I think of as) single, and career driven. I would be really happy to have it again. But I met my husband, my life partner and happily swapped lifestyles for one equally fulfilling- equally not better or worse, just different. So no envy, no disappointment, no expectations. Just simple fact.

I asked for help to move forward, not rake over my bad move and imperfect parenting. I know, I accept, I have listened to your advice about what I have done wrong. The messages from people who have shared the daughter’s point of view have been particularly helpful. And those who have come through a similar situation. And those with positive advice on what I can do. I hurt, she hurts, hopefully if I handle it right we can learn and build a stronger relationship. Maybe not but I need to try.
I won’t try too hard because that will be seen as yet another attempt at controlling her. I will listen to her and try to hear her. I hope she listens to me too.

Just listen to her.

You need to repair and having an expectation of reciprocal listening/hearing isn't going to work

Listen to hear, not to respond

Repair the relationship by letting her tell you how she needs you to be

Then be it

For some time

Once the repair is entrenched..... you can tentatively explain some of the things you might need from her

But not yet

1. see a counsellor. I think you’ve got unresolved issues around your relationship with your own mother. This will help get your head straight.
2. Ask your daughter if she would consider a coffee or lunch. You can travel to her, you’re retired. She’s working. Or wait until her next visit. Don’t take over her weekend with her friends.
3. listen to her. Don’t try to justify what you did. “Well what I meant was…” Just say you’re sorry it upset her. You’ve been working with a counsellor. You’d like to repair your relationship so you can have a nice relationship as adults. Ask what else would help your relationship going forward.
4. If you really respect her life choices, make sure she knows that. And I would consider it disrespectful if my mother described me as always single if I’d had long term relationships but wasn’t living with anyone.

@Suzyinpain

You've had a lot of comments and advice on here and I don't have any more to add to that - you have enough to think about now. Instead, I wanted to send you a virtual hug, as I would Hope someone would do for me if I was in such an unhappy place.

I hope you and your daughter can reconcile as adults and be in a happier place together in the future. 🌹

The relationship sounds difficult, and it’s important she is equally invested in repairing it. Without the back story it’s really impossible for anyone to say what the next best move should be.

I think keep the door open for her to stay as planned
I wouldn’t be sending anymore money full stop for any reason if she doesn’t like it.
If she asks your opinion on anything going forward remain neutral and undecided.
Invest in other relationships that are supportive and nurturing. As much as we love our children they should be a small part of a bigger picture.

There is another thing that might be worth mentioning here and that has come up from other posters, you haven’t done anything wrong here. Giving her money was a good and well intentioned but it triggered feelings in your daughter for whatever reason. Those feelings especially between a parent and child are likely down to repeating patterns of behaviour and dynamics that have existed for your daughter since childhood. You gave her money and from the outside by any standard that is a generous thing to do but for whatever reason it made your daughter have negative emotions. Being curious about why that was is the root of the issue you are experiencing here and it is this that needs to be worked on or not but also by both parties.