Strained relations with Adult DC

[Suzyinpain]

Name changed for this. Posting for help and traffic.

I need help to word a message to begin to put things right.

Background that I think may be relevant:
I had a very strained relationship with my mother who I felt was controlling.
I have tried very hard not to repeat this with my own DC.
Adult DD lives a very long way away from me. we are both in the UK.
I see her maybe twice a year. Manly DH (her father) and I travel to her.
She rarely "comes home" mainly due to her work.
She is single, always has been, childfree, living in a house share in her mid / late 30s.

In June we were meeting up at a family wedding. Chatting on Whatsapp - she had seen an outfit she really liked. Slightly more than her usual budget, but not extortionately so. She was debating whether to buy it or go for a less expensive (and in my opinion less suitable) outfit, or continue to look.
Without asking her, I transferred half the cost of the more expensive outfit. I honestly thought that that would help her to choose. I could afford it and wanted her to have a treat, a little less financial stress but no strings. I stated that it was in case it helped her to decide and to feel free to just spend it on Prosecco if she would rather.
Obviously I was wrong to do this- She accused me of coercing her and being controlling. exactly the things I felt my mum did to me. The money was returned.
I was very hurt and I am still upset. When I reflected on my behaviour I realise I'm not upset that the money was returned, but because of the accusations. Being coercive and controlling is the main thing I have feared all my life.

We had one message exchange after I sent the money. Her message returning it accused me of trying to control her choices. She recognised I meant things kindly but I should have asked and waited for a response from her before "taking control". She hoped it wouldn't spoil our planned family wedding but we really need to have a think about how to avoid the situation in future.
I apologised, recognised I had got it wrong and that it could be perceived differently.
We met at the wedding. Things were slightly strained but friendly. It wasn't the place to try to sort the "elephant" out. We've not had any contact since, although she's in regular contact with her DF.
I am still hurting. So is she. She has told DH that she doesn't want to stay with us when she comes to our city for a friends significant birthday because of this.
DH has suggested I try to write to her.

Thank you for making it this far.
I know I was wrong. I don't know if I've done anything previously / regularly to cause her to make this accusation. We both obviously want to sort things out. I just don't know where to start. I am not good at expressing myself in words - but she really is. Please help.

Chatting on Whatsapp - she had seen an outfit she really liked. Slightly more than her usual budget, but not extortionately so. She was debating whether to buy it or go for a less expensive (and in my opinion less suitable) outfit, or continue to look.

OP this part of your post essentially reads as you wanted her to chose the appropriate outfit, there's a lot of judgment in it and it reads as you trying to influence or control her choices. If the aim was just to help her afford the outfit she loved you would have written something like DD loved this outfit so I gave her half the money to buy it along with a message saying to spend it on whatever she choses. Instead you wrote about how it was the appropriate choice. I'm guessing there's similar incidences in the past that you maybe didn't scan notice or disregarded and she's sensitive to you trying to exert influence over her.

As PP’s have said, on the surface it was a lovely gesture and I can’t see what you did wrong, tbh. I know that my DD(18) would gladly accept a monetary gift from me and I wouldn’t turn it down from a parent either. Like most people, we work hard and I’m not going to look a gift horse in the mouth unless I thought my parent really couldn’t afford it.

Somehow your gesture went down the wrong way though and you need to talk to her about it and find out why she was upset. Perhaps explain that you genuinely enjoy treating her and that if she doesn’t mind, you’d like to do so occasionally.

She’s clearly very independent, but such gestures come from love, not trying to patronize or help her out when she doesn’t need it.

You wanted her not to buy a 'less appropriate' outfit so you gave her money to try and control her choice.

People often believe they 'didn't say anything' but you revealed your opinions and she is angry.

Much of what we communicate is non-verbal. Get in touch with her, admit how you really felt and apologise. Also say this has been aa learning curve for you.

Bit strange that your husband continues to talk to her and suggests that you write to her. Hasn't he discussed this rather odd situation with her?

I can understand your daughter's irritation at being infantalised by that unwanted transfer of cash - but someone in their late 30s really should have the maturity to accept your apology and move on. If that's all that's going on here.

I know full well I have not been a perfect mother, or even an acceptable person. Most of the time I actually feel I have been a truly awful mother who has occasionally done a helpful thing

This is ringing all kinds of alarm bells for me.

If it is a genuine reflection of reality then you must already understand why your daughter keeps you at arms length.

If it is not a genuine reflection of reality then you are clearly very inclined to melodrama and that is extremely tiresome.

Does your dh have your back op? Or is he another one that doesn’t want to rock the boat? Or upset the apple cart.
Does he always expect you to be the conciliatory one? and doesn’t expect your dd to behave in a reasonable, respectful way? Or does he pull her up?

PP should note op already apologised and sent her dd a message - it was her dd that didn’t respond, which in itself is abusive. Silence treatment meted out for months to punish is not acceptable, and her father shouldn’t be facilitating that by continuing his own separate communication.

I also take issue with the wedding outfit, you are allowed to have an opinion, if you felt one was better than the other. It was your dd that approached you about her outfit dilemma not the other way around. If your independence is so important to you then why involve others?

It feels like op was being set up to fail. Of course if my dd said she liked something and couldn’t stretch to it, I would naturally want to do the same, and send the money as a gesture of kindness.

Is she your only child?

Her behaviour sounds thoroughly teenage like.

"CalistoNoSolo ,  @dinot t.  @CreationNat1on You are probably right about sharing my opinion. But this was a (once very regular) family chat about everyday life, the sort some people are fortunate enough to have frequently in person with their family (and therefore have no accurate record of). I really don’t feel able to double and triple think everything and walk on egg shells all the time in that situation. Nor do I think I should. It’s just not natural or normal. I believed we were all being asked for opinions so added my honest thoughts."

But you didn't just leave it there, you then transferred the money so that she would buy the more 'appropriate' dress that you wanted her to wear. It's your actions that have annoyed her not your opinion. So you don't need to think that you have to "double or triple think" anything. Offer your opinion and let your daughter make her own decision without trying to sway her (however subtle you try and do it- she can see through your "you can spend it on Prosecco if you like" comments.

I can see your passive aggressiveness slip out in your posts too, eg -

"the sort some people are fortunate enough to have frequently in person with their family"

You've mentioned thats she's childless and single a few times, but totally irrelevant to the issue at hand. Is this a bone of contention too, maybe?

Just asking the question as my own mother constantly defined me in a similar way. She was desperate to be a grandmother. So I was always described as 'independent' and single to others (in front of me, often) - these were the things that defined me to her as she wanted me to be something else and so would bring them up in the most random ways.

she can see through your "you can spend it on Prosecco if you like" comments.

Exactly. To me that comment would sound rather like

"I think you're rather over-fond of drinking cheap booze so I'm going to make a point of suggesting you can spend this rather significant sum of money on alcohol if you're going to be difficult and not buy the dress I like."

I agree with other posters. Every single comment you make about your daughter is a passive aggressive dig at her and her lifestyle. You made it clear which outfit you expected her to buy. She decided not to put up with this coercive move. Good for her.

Even now this thread feels like an attempt to get a group on your side so you can show her how wrong she is.

Writing to her will make things worse. She's doesn't want to talk to you write now and you are trying to control the situation by forcing yourself on her through another means of conversation when she has chosen to give your relationship some breathing room. You don't need to sort this out immediately you need to back off in her view and leave her alone for a bit.

It all seems a bit weird.

Considering she isn't close to you, it's odd that she's even involving you in the outfit decision. I'd never do that with DM as we don't have that sort of relationship.

Her reaction seems very OTT and either there is a massive back story here, or she is looking for reasons to be outraged - possibly both things are true.

Going forward I would focus on being like Switzerland to her - positively neutral on all matters. if the situation arises again " I'm sure you'll look lovely whatever you choose." Let her lead the pace of the relationship.

I don't understand this thread at all. You're saying lots of words OP but no real actual examples of how your mother was bad or how you were a bad mother. Unless I've missed that in which case apologies.

This all sounds like hard work. I'd just let her get on with her life. She knows where you are if she wants to reach out like an adult. Drop the guilt and hand wringing, it's not helping anyone at all.

Yeah I and other posters have picked up on a lot of the language you've used here as passive aggressive. I doubt this has washed over her. You know what it's like to have a controlling mother and how suffocating and infantilising that can be.

This isn't a one off event. This is the straw that broke the camels back.

I would do some therapy into your childhood. Explain to your daughter your own complicated history and you are actively seeking help. Do not seek to excuse your behaviour.

@ShellySarah Humiliating her? Really? What’s humiliating about being a strong independent career woman who’s chosen to live on her own terms? She’s had long term relationships but chooses not to live with a partner or to have children. Her housemates are all of similar age and similar mindset. Her friends are a mix of single and married, all child free. No drugs, no alcoholism, successful - nothing shameful.
Her career has to be in a very expensive area. She couldn’t get a job beyond entry level in her chosen field anywhere else, and she has to be there in person most of the time. It’s the same for many people.

Same here. I know if my son said something about a new suit and I sent him some money towards it, he’d be delighted. Something else has gone on in your relationship- the comments above about martyring yourself might be relevant here, or she could just be fiercely independent and resent your gift as an indication that you think she needs assistance.

I hope you are able to resolve things.

You said in your initial post that she’s “single, always has been.”

I’m getting married late in my 30s but before that had been both long term single and in long term relationships- my parents would never have considered me “always single!”

Anyway. A lot of drama here. Your daughter is an independent adult. Why not just text her and say “both dresses are lovely and you’ll look great, I’m really looking forward to going to a family wedding together. I don’t have many excuses to treat you now you’re doing so well, if there’s a dress or accessories you really like me and your dad would like to treat you / send you £x”

My mum is controlling and struggles to treat me as an adult - and this is exactly the sort of row we have. I’m 40.

If you want to improve the relationship then I think that you need to face up to what actually happened in your own thought process, not what you think she could reasonably see or know of what happened.

Id suggest that what happened was that you felt one dress was suitable and one wasn’t, so you tried to encourage/push your daughter to buy the suitable dress by sending her money. You thought that she would say no thank you if you offered the money so you put it directly into her account. You didn’t want her to feel controlled so you sent a light message about Prosecco.

The problem is that your daughter is an adult and knows you, so she knows that was your thought process. She doesn’t want you to be more subtle/change your language/watch what you’re saying/walk on eggshells/not engage in the WhatsApp. She wants you to get to a point where you truly understand that it’s not ok to guide or manipulate her to a better choice of outfit because she is 30.

My mums controlling attitude comes from a place of anxiety. In this scenario she would be genuinely worried about me coming to a wedding in something she felt was unsuitable and rather than dealing with her anxiety she would try to control my choice of outfit.

The three things which my mum could do that would improve our relationship immeasurably would be to treat her anxiety; to be honest about what happened in these scenarios (ie not pretending that the bank transfer was just a treat and get hurt that I’ve refused it) and apologise when they occur; do some work on herself so that she can get to a point where she recognises that this sort of “guidance” isn’t appropriate in adult relationships and instead manage her anxiety internally.

One thing which I would add here is that if you want to improve the relationship then now is the time to do it. I have kids and they have quite a limited relationship with my parents because of this dynamic. I don’t trust my mum to follow my rules and to not create situations to push me towards how she thinks I should parent. I’m not willing to have the kids in that dynamic so she very rarely has my kids without me present.

I hope that you don’t mind me being blunt. I’m sure that this is hard to read, but I hope that even if it’s difficult it’s helpful.

I think I took the chat as a hint, she took the gift as an indication that I felt she couldn’t cope. It should have been a simple misunderstanding. Maybe she was feeling particularly sensitive that day. I was certainly “triggered” by the accusation of coercive control.
As to why I have not contacted her in three months: I was waiting until I felt strong enough. I’m still hurting but I’m finally able to think about what I want more rationally.
we did chat normally at the wedding.
Why now? She is coming here to see her friends in a few weeks. She was going to be bringing several friends here to sleep over after the party as it’s being held in a venue within five minutes walk of our house.
I miss her. She is my daughter and I love her.
She’s asked (via my DH)
My block:
I apologised with almost the exact words of @DoubleChocolateBrownies in their first post (just not the bit about not staying with us as that wasn’t relevant at the time) Her response was a very half hearted “sorry if you feel that way but..” I left it with a comment about needing to work out how to move on and work out how to prevent this happening again. I felt dismissed and very, very hurt. I still do. I lie awake worrying about it, I cry uncontrollably when I’m alone especially in the wee small hours (dramatic much! I know but at least there’s not an audience) I’ve probably blown it out of all proportion- but maybe not. I’ve never spoken about this IRL. since the wedding. My DH had no idea that I was still hurting when he told me what my DD had said. I need to do something practical to put it right before it causes more damage to me.
This thread has given me an outside perspective. All posts have been helpful In giving me a little perspective and insight (apart from a couple who want salacious details or just to berate me- I’ve enough mother-guilt for all of us and some left over )
Thank you all, especially those who have offered practical advice.
I’ll give one more update telling you what I have decided. It’ll be sometime over the weekend once I have got my head straight, because I know how frustrating these threads are if you don’t get a resolution. I owe you all at least that for your time and support.

'You may feel its a no strings attached but really it is. You thought by sending her the money it would help her pick the one you thought was more suitable because it would take away any money worries.'

I think this is spot on. I can relate because my mother has used money to control me in the past. On the surface, it seems like a loving gesture but it has obviously pushed a big button for your daughter. As others have said, there is obviously a lot more to this

OP, you describe yourself as a 'truly awful' mother who has occasionally got things right. That sounds like such a sad and lonely place to be. The difference between you and my mother is that you do acknowledge that you have played a role in the breakdown of your relationship with your DD, even though you do seem confused about exactly what your role was. That's ok. You're not blaming it all on her. You want to try to heal things with her and you want a dialogue with her about that. That's huge

I would think a bit more about starting therapy. I would recommend psychodynamic therapy. The process would help you to better understand the impact that your mother's behaviour had on you, and would also help you to unpick the dynamic between you and your DD. You are carrying so much sadness, loneliness and confusion, and sometimes having professional support to process all of that can be invaluable. I was in therapy for several years and it was incredibly painful at times, but by far the best thing I've ever done for myself

Google BACP to find therapists in your area, if you're interested

I after reading more, I'm kind of swithering now to the other side that the money was given to control the choice.
The reply to the poster calling her out of humiliating the daughter on a "what's humiliating about x,y,z?"
Which is a change of tact from "living in a flatshare, single, blah blah". You I cluded that Information to paint her as someone falling behind the timeline of where they should be.
Then when called out on it you change the tone and re-write history.

I think it would be Interesting to see screenshots of the chat at the time of the money transfer! Let's see how you actually painted the mo ey transfer to her.

She’s had long term relationships but chooses not to live with a partner or to have children.

@Suzyinpain

In the first post you said she's single and always has been. Clearly that isn't true and it's an odd thing to say if she's had long term relationships.

This whole thread is odd. Massive posts which are contradictory and a promise you'll update everyone so we're not left unsatisfied

OP what you did was definitely not controlling (my Mum would do this for me), however what’s important here is that she perceived it to be, so there has to be a wider historical context woven either around her sense of self and mental health, or your historic actions. It could be either end of the spectrum or half way between the two, and I imagine you and she would both give different answers to that.

Totally agree

Totally

All posters come on here to give their side of their story. So you know they're painting themselves in their best light. You know it's bad when an op can't even manage a single post without a shedload of passive aggressive comments.

The last post is all about her feelings. She's crying every day. Unimaginable pain. Even her username is a martyr. It's all about her

She's not going to get help though as that would confirm it's her in the wrong.

Yes I did notice this but unless she verbalised these feelings I can’t see it’s a huge issue. But maybe you are right. You did want to control which dress she bought ?