Strained relations with Adult DC

[Suzyinpain]

Name changed for this. Posting for help and traffic.

I need help to word a message to begin to put things right.

Background that I think may be relevant:
I had a very strained relationship with my mother who I felt was controlling.
I have tried very hard not to repeat this with my own DC.
Adult DD lives a very long way away from me. we are both in the UK.
I see her maybe twice a year. Manly DH (her father) and I travel to her.
She rarely "comes home" mainly due to her work.
She is single, always has been, childfree, living in a house share in her mid / late 30s.

In June we were meeting up at a family wedding. Chatting on Whatsapp - she had seen an outfit she really liked. Slightly more than her usual budget, but not extortionately so. She was debating whether to buy it or go for a less expensive (and in my opinion less suitable) outfit, or continue to look.
Without asking her, I transferred half the cost of the more expensive outfit. I honestly thought that that would help her to choose. I could afford it and wanted her to have a treat, a little less financial stress but no strings. I stated that it was in case it helped her to decide and to feel free to just spend it on Prosecco if she would rather.
Obviously I was wrong to do this- She accused me of coercing her and being controlling. exactly the things I felt my mum did to me. The money was returned.
I was very hurt and I am still upset. When I reflected on my behaviour I realise I'm not upset that the money was returned, but because of the accusations. Being coercive and controlling is the main thing I have feared all my life.

We had one message exchange after I sent the money. Her message returning it accused me of trying to control her choices. She recognised I meant things kindly but I should have asked and waited for a response from her before "taking control". She hoped it wouldn't spoil our planned family wedding but we really need to have a think about how to avoid the situation in future.
I apologised, recognised I had got it wrong and that it could be perceived differently.
We met at the wedding. Things were slightly strained but friendly. It wasn't the place to try to sort the "elephant" out. We've not had any contact since, although she's in regular contact with her DF.
I am still hurting. So is she. She has told DH that she doesn't want to stay with us when she comes to our city for a friends significant birthday because of this.
DH has suggested I try to write to her.

Thank you for making it this far.
I know I was wrong. I don't know if I've done anything previously / regularly to cause her to make this accusation. We both obviously want to sort things out. I just don't know where to start. I am not good at expressing myself in words - but she really is. Please help.

@eastiseastwestiswest Thank you. I think you are right. She saw first hand the relationship with my DM and how badly I handled it. I think she, like me, is trying hard to not repeat the pattern. She’s more adult than I am about the issue too. I like your message ideas. I’ve copied then to a word document as a start to my written thoughts.
@DoubleChocolateBrownies @CreationNat1on ationNat1on Thank you both. Your messages are virtually what I sent to her within minutes of the incident, over 3 moths ago. Apart from the “is there something else” and “lets talk”part. She has asked for the let’s talk… I’ll include that bit in my response. It could be the key.
@NoYohgurtAgain , @HectorSalamanca , @Hufflepods
You all make good points. The meeting up twice a year is largely time, finance and distance driven. The journey is over 8 solid hours without including stops. So it take a day to travel each way which feels like the whole weekend gone. Until recently we’ve all had full-time, full-on jobs with very little free time that coincides (shift work). It’s only changed since DH retired and I have gone part time. Going to see her involves hours of difficult driving or public transport and hotels (she house shares). She doesn’t drive. There are wider family meet ups at half way venues.
I know full well I have not been a perfect mother, or even an acceptable person. Most of the time I actually feel I have been a truly awful mother who has occasionally done a helpful thing. I worked full time in a stressful job to support the family. I was battling my own mother. I often put others before my own needs to my own detriment and feel resentful when they don’t recognise it. I am human. I have always done what I felt was best for my DC but I know what I felt was not always right.
@IthinkIamAnAlien Are you me? This is frighteningly accurate. So much of our upbringing is the same, especially the surprise gifts and never coming or going empty handed. I’m so uncomfortable not “taking something” however small. I’m always thinking about what x or y would like as a gift next time I go (nothing expensive just thoughtful, or so I thought.)
@Cluborange666 thank you for that perspective, really useful. I’ll take it on board.
@DearNora . Thank you. That might be another key. I find I can’t ask or even hint at needing help so find the concept difficult. Maybe she doesn’t and this is something we need to discuss.

On the face of it you didn’t really do anything wrong, or anything that bad anyway. Also on the face of it, her letting you know how she feels and returning the money isn’t anything for you to feel so hurt about.

BUT…. you can’t look at this in isolation. Feelings, hurt, miscommunications, judgements, in family relationship build up over years. It’s all incredibly hard to unpick.

I say this as someone who has a very difficult relationship with her mother. I don’t speak to mine often and keep her at arms length. I really struggle to not feel hurt or angry in her presence. My husband and kids don’t understand and I can’t properly articulate why. I just know that my feeling have built up over 40 odd years.

My advice would be to draw a line under the “dress episode” and don’t mention it again unless she does. But do reach out to her so say that you miss her and would love to work together to build a better relationship.

It is a difficult one as you were trying to be nice, but I can see how it could be perceived as (mildly) controlling.

I think that there is a lot of background missing. Do you give lots or unasked for ‘advice’ on how she is leading her life (career, home, bfs (or lack or them))?

The problem is that it sounds like a clash. She sounds very sensitive and you sound more open with your opinions, which is leading her to distance herself. What might be water off a ducks back to one person probably feels intense and pressuring to another.

I wouldn’t rush to apologise or write long heartfelt letters. Let her come to you in her own time and respond to that. Hypersensitive people are hard work, but if you want to maintain a relationship with her, I would be very careful not to say or do anything which could even be perceived as giving advice or judging.

There must be more to this. If a certain family member did this I would react in a similar way (although maybe wouldn’t be rude to her face but would inwardly seethe) however, this is because there is a backstory as she has a habit of offering unsolicited advice, is very judgemental about people and struggles to accept her kids are grown, is sometimes quite critical of them. Etc etc. if someone I had a ‘normal’ relationship with ie a friend did this I would be overjoyed and think how kind!!

Well done for facing up to the failings in your parenting. As a parent that fails sometimes too, I know how painful that is. You did your best and the model you had of parenting didn’t make it easy, I’m sure. You are doing amazingly to acknowledge and speak about it. Don’t forget all the things you did well/in the way you’d hope. You tried to be different to your mum.

I think if you can write a heart felt letter that lets her know that you know what you did wrong, that you did your best and it wasn’t about a lack of love or her fault. That you’d love to build a closer relationship, it might be enough.

Sorry having difficulty keeping up.
@CalistoNoSolo , @dinot t. @CreationNat1on You are probably right about sharing my opinion. But this was a (once very regular) family chat about everyday life, the sort some people are fortunate enough to have frequently in person with their family (and therefore have no accurate record of). I really don’t feel able to double and triple think everything and walk on egg shells all the time in that situation. Nor do I think I should. It’s just not natural or normal. I believed we were all being asked for opinions so added my honest thoughts.
@CreationNat1on Sorry you have had such a difficult experience with your mum. I had similar with mine, not the money, but other things.
I thought the more expensive outfit suited her really well, so did the rest of the family who were involved in the chat. It was actually less sophisticated that the cheaper one and the one she finally chose. But maybe you’re right. I’ll certainly try not to do anything similar again, but how do I repair this?

@Suzyinpain The sentence that leapt out at me out of all your responses was this one: I often put others before my own needs to my own detriment and feel resentful when they don’t recognise it - my mother did that and it's called being a martyr and nothing pisses people (particularly adult children) off more, believe me.

My own mother would swear blind on a 100 bibles (she's Catholic) that she's NOTHING like her own mother...whereas I see virtually a carbon copy that didn't get to be as 'bad' only because sheer numbers (my mother only had 3 children, I'm the only girl) and distance (I live on the other side of the world, deliberately).

Like her mother, my mother tried to be a shit stirrer with her children once we were adults, but it failed because my brothers just wouldn't engage with her. My mother also (and still does) expect us all to be mind readers and know/give her what she wants the second she wants it. The resentment and sulking when this doesn't happen is off the scale... she's also judgemental and controlling, it's her way or the highway. I've never heard my mother apologise in her life to anyone. She was jealous of my own poor late MIL right up until she died 13 years ago, purely because MIL worked hard and enjoyed her life.

I wouldn't bring this up again with her. Constantly racking over the coals would piss me off even more if I was your daughter.

@sweeneytoddsrazor @purpleme12 @Cordeliathecat all definitely points for the future. If I can get past this.
@GrammyBea I am extremely proud of what she has achieved She has an excellent professional job in something she really excels at. She’s gone much further than her father or I ever went in our careers and it’s not been easy for her. I mentioned her living circumstances as background as to why we don’t travel to her more frequently. When we go, we tend meet up somewhere neutral or in our B&B because of the other housemates and the limited space. Her living arrangement is normal for her generation as a single professional.
@Holly60 That’s what I’d hoped, but it didn’t happen.
@Newbutoldfather I try to keep my thoughts to myself about her major life choices, but very definitely approve of everything she’s done. I certainly hadn’t done as much or as well at her age She’s everything I had hoped for and more. (Apart from our relationship)
She has come to me (or rather to me via her DF) wanting to move forward. She says she has “reached to to me” (her words) but I have just ignored the problem. Whatever I believe, this is her truth and I need to respond to that. I think you are right about not sending long letters. But I do need to do something.
@Howtohandl I don’t agree. See my answer to @GrammyBea above. But maybe she perceives it that way? I am very aware that she’s a grown fully independent adult. I think she is very opinionated herself, and she frequently mocks my choices when we meet face to face, although I think she sees it as banter. It hurts a lot but I try so hard not to let it show. She has never attempted to get to know me as an adult rather than a parent, but that’s fairly normal in families, especially ones that don’t actually live close together I think. I try very hard not to be critical of her – that’s quite easy as there’s really not much to be critical of.

That’s exactly the sort of thing I’d do with my daughters and they’d be thrilled and grateful. So it’s not the gesture, it’s either laden with alternative meaning for her or she’s using it to convey being upset about something else. And she might genuinely see you as coercive or she might be using your known fears against you, again because she’s angry about something else. Only talking will sort it out between you. Your daughter is going to have to tell you what’s really bothering her but don’t blame yourself for doing something nice

@Suzyinpain apologies, you don’t agree with what? That there must be more to it? I just wrote what MY reasons would be for acting or feeling the way your daughter did for a gesture like that, I’m not suggesting that these were her reasons as well…

Why was the less expensive outfit less suitable. She sounds very prickly but I feel you’re not telling us the full story.

This and given she is fine with your dh , you very obviously left out the important bits.

My mum used to give me money or buy things for me. On the surface, they seemed like nice gestures, but it was all about control. If I refused, she got very angry and I was considered ungrateful. I couldn't win. I would worry that your dd feels this is happening.

On the face of it, her reaction is an insane overreaction to what you did. There must be something else going on. Either you are substantially overbearing as a mother and you don’t realise it, or possibly there are ND issues on her side.

Sorry, I thought you were saying there’s more to this and that I frequently offer unsolicited advice. Maybe I misunderstood you. I don’t think that, but I suppose I would wouldn’t I. Maybe she sees everything I do and say as unsolicited and unwanted. If that’s what she believes, then that’s what I have to sort out with her somehow.

Oh, for goodness sake.

Unless there's a huge back story, you are capitulating and tying yourself up in knots, trying to justify your daughters behaviour, because you want to only see the best in her - simply because she is your daughter.

If this was any other person you would see the situation for what it was - she's a gaslighting, ungrateful BRAT.

Who the fuck gets angry with their Mum, because they transferred money? You even said she could spend it on prosecco, if she didn't need it for the outfit.

Stop being a doormat and see her for what she is. Don't even think about apologising either. Why on earth would you? Because you're so desperate to have a relationship with her, that you'll tolerate any shit she doles out?

I say all of this with kindness (even though it reads as though I'm telling you off). I have an adult DD myself and I know how hard it can be. Interestingly, I have always been the softer / less strict parent with my kids. I get less respect than my ExH who is strict and tight with money, and I get less respect than my daughters father-in-law, who is of the same ilk.

Weird and really, really feel for you. You did a lovely, kind thing, and she's thrown it in your face.

Jeezo, I wonder how she'd feel if you were a drug addict with no money and a hectic lifestyle, who showed her no love or support. I bet her head would spin on her neck like the girl from the Exorcist.

There’s got to be more to it. If not, your daughter doesn’t sound very nice.

I think it is a lovely thoughtful thing that you did. Why is everybody nowadays looking through the lens of everyone having ulterior motives . I think it is really sad.

"without asking her".

That might be the key thing here. For whatever reason, you doing l
that without asking her might have made her feel like you don't see her as an autonomous adult.

I have young adults and it's been important to them that I see them like that, as adults. Sometimes that has meant them not wanting to receive a gift. Was a phase, and when they realised I did respect their wishes, they became receptive to gifts again.

It's really good that she's been able to be honest with you about it.

She sounds like unbelievably hard work.

I ask gently is she autistic?
In an effort to give her a better childhood it sounds like she has no idea or concept of other peoples needs and feelings. Everything has an ulterior motive and kind gestures are pulled apart.

You seem to be walking on eggshells around her, too scared to do anything should she simply freeze you out.

This is now entrenched behaviour, after years of pandering.

What are her other relationships like?

I wouldn’t apologise again, I would offer her a bed for the night and brunch the next day and keep it light and brief.

Hmm I think I have a minority view here.

Don’t be a doormat. Your intentions were kind and loving.

It sounds like your daughter has got all the ‘power’ and you are trying to please her at every turn. It’s quite sad to read.

It is not always the parents’ fault. Maybe she is being unpleasant.

Talk it through but no need to concede every point. You can be strong and loving. Maybe it’s her that is controlling you?

It reads as though she has succeeded in life and now no longer respects you. I actually think you need to assert yourself and be clear about your intentions and not roll over grovelling to her.

I agree with pp you are being controlled again, and the bowing and scraping to her view on everything is only making things worse. Did you have counselling for your early abuse?

Have you ever considered that the problem might be you dd? Or that rather than you being like your mother, she is?

Wow, some interesting responses here, several very hard to read. Some have hit home, some seem a long way off. I need to think about this some more.
two things I have been asked that I can answer straight away though:
No, I’ve never had therapy for anything. Until recently I have never had either the time or the money or the energy or felt the need. It’s just not common in my social circle so has never occurred to me. Wouldn’t know how to go about this. Maybe it’s needed.
No, she’s definitely not ND. She’s very imaginative, articulate, outgoing, sociable, has some close friends that she’s had since school (so minimum of 15 years) and most people who have met her think she’s really empathetic and interesting. I have worked with autistic people. She doesn’t meet any ND criteria at all.