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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Unwanted touching at work, why is it so hard to object??

110 replies

BorrowedThyme · 03/09/2023 00:07

I do not want to be hugged and kissed and called affectionate nick names. I am a strong independent woman, why do I freeze every time and not think of anything to say until it is too late?

I need a response that makes it clear I don't want this behaviour, but still makes it possible to maintain an effective working relationship.

Please help me be better prepared, what do I say next time?

OP posts:
Sexnotgender · 03/09/2023 09:31

Fucking hell, what is wrong with men.

Definitely raise it with your boss and/or HR.

Very telling he does it when no one else is around.

Conkersinautumn · 03/09/2023 09:35

Please do raise this, like you said you've left the room so there's no way on earth he hasn't noticed you're uncomfortable.

Also I used to have a 'rear view' mirror on my desk when there was a door behind me and the it guy was uncomfortably handsy. It was very useful.

PostOpOp · 03/09/2023 09:37

OP I feel physically sick reading this. To have a man approach from behind is somehow worse.

I agree it's generally good to be forthright, however, in this case I think you need to involve HR/head (whoever is in charge of things - I don't work in a school) first.

He's doing this deliberately when you're alone which indicates he's a sneaky bugger. So if you tell him No, chances are he's going to be "hurt and upset" and cause you problems in some way. Possibly by going to the head/hr and saying you're accusing him of something he's not done, or by spreading a rumour about you. Something underhand that removes the power from you, just like approaching you from behind.

So speak to whoever's in charge to tell them what's going on and that first you want them to know, before you speak to him. If it can be solved by telling him to stop, then great. If not, at least you've got a backup option and you're not left reacting to whatever he does.

Whatever BS he spouts though when you tell him, remember it's BS. Likely he'll try a dose of gaslighting too. Or tell you "you're like a mum to me" or something.

All that's if you actually want to speak to him. If not just report. What he's doing is entirely unacceptable.

s4usagefingers · 03/09/2023 09:38

Sorry I voted YABU by accident. He’s a creep, especially because he’s doing it when there’s nobody around. He’s doing it to try and intimidate you in my opinion. You need to tell HR and also be firm and direct with him.

UndercoverCop · 03/09/2023 09:40

One of my colleagues was in the middle of an application for a sexual harm prevention order for one of our cases, a hugger colleague approached her and colleague 1 loudly said if you try and hug me again I'm applying for one of these for you. They both laughed, but hugger hasn't tried to hug her again so the message was received. Probably couldn't threaten a SHPO in another environment though, it'd be seen as quite an escalation.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 03/09/2023 09:42

Yuk yuk yuk yuk yuk yuk yuk yuk.

You could speak to the DSL, Business Manager or the Head about this. You don't have to say anything to him, as it's a normal response to freeze.

Your union (I'd go to branch level, not in school rep level) could support you in raising a grievance.

ClairDeLaLune · 03/09/2023 10:03

BorrowedThyme · 03/09/2023 08:11

no, he is hugging and kissing me

Show quote history

That’s sexual assault. There’s zero consent there. He’s a fucking creep.

Thelonelygiraffe · 03/09/2023 10:46

Hugging and kissing you from behind? Wtf? He's so far over the boundary of what is decent behaviour there. What a fucking creep. And doing it when you're the only person in the office? That's no coincidence.

I think, instead I'd talking to him, you could go straight to HR. He's being totally inappropriate.

💐

Thelonelygiraffe · 03/09/2023 10:47

This is 100% on him but the first thing he will say if you go straight to HR is that you never indicated that you minded and never said anything.

This is true, but then op could counter that she froze and didn't know what to say, and she felt intimidated. Also, she could say she has never ever given Creep the idea that she would welcome this behaviour.

BeeCucumber · 03/09/2023 10:54

😦

AltheaVestr1t · 03/09/2023 10:58

OP, I totally get why you are freezing up and feeling uncomfortable, we've been conditioned to take responsibility for this. But that's absolutely not ok.

You need to woman up. On behalf of women everywhere young and old. Please don't put up with this any longer!!

FarEast · 03/09/2023 11:17

No, no witnesses, for the poster who asked, it only seems to happen when we are alone in the office.

This is very deliberate sexual harassment. I hope you can do something about it. I’m sorry you freeze and feel ashamed although this is a normal reaction to being harassed. Good luck Flowers

Maltaw · 03/09/2023 11:52

BorrowedThyme · 03/09/2023 08:53

Thank you for the support and solidarity. I'm absolutely going to speak up.

So Monday morning go and see him (if you can, if not then HR or manager)
"Hi Joe, I've been meaning to tell you something. You know that you hug me and sometimes kiss me, well I actually really really dislike it so can you completely stop doing it. That's it, OK, see you later"

No apologies, no acknowledgement that it's awkward or embarrassing, no further explanation. The only issue is that you don't like it and want it to stop.

Phineyj · 03/09/2023 12:21

This is assault. In a school it's also a Safeguarding matter. If he thinks it's OK to do this to another adult does he have appropriate boundaries around children?

Go to the Head. Please tell me it is not the Head!!!

Original poster
BorrowedThyme · 03/09/2023 12:41

Phineyj · 03/09/2023 12:21

This is assault. In a school it's also a Safeguarding matter. If he thinks it's OK to do this to another adult does he have appropriate boundaries around children?

Go to the Head. Please tell me it is not the Head!!!

no, not the head!

OP posts:
Jellycatspyjamas · 03/09/2023 12:45

This is 100% on him but the first thing he will say if you go straight to HR is that you never indicated that you minded and never said anything.

Consent is an active process though, presumably he hasn’t asked before he put his hands on her or kissed her, he can’t take her not objecting as consent to be kissed in the workplace by a married man.

FrancescaContini · 03/09/2023 12:46

Thelonelygiraffe · 03/09/2023 10:47

This is 100% on him but the first thing he will say if you go straight to HR is that you never indicated that you minded and never said anything.

This is true, but then op could counter that she froze and didn't know what to say, and she felt intimidated. Also, she could say she has never ever given Creep the idea that she would welcome this behaviour.

In addition, anyone working in HR would know that the onus is not on the OP to “indicate” that she doesn’t like unwanted touching; it’s on her male colleague to understand that this is always the case in any situation apart from anyone he’s intimate/friends with.

StripeyDeckchair · 03/09/2023 12:50

If you don't want to talk to your or their LM is there a senior member of staff you would feel comfortable talking to?
I would immediately respond and support any colleague who came to me with sort of problem.

I think many men simply do not comprehend how intimidating male physicality can be, especially when its likely that the person will dismiss your dislike by saying "but I'm only being friendly" or "I do that to everyone".
The person needs to understand that their actions are wrong & unwanted.

Singleandproud · 03/09/2023 12:53

If he works in a school he knows full well what he is doing is inappropriate. Unless perhaps you go out regularly and are friends outside of school but I suspect if you had that type of relationship then you wouldn't mind or wouldn't mind telling him to keep his hands to himself. Instead he is purposefully pushing your boundaries when you are alone and the fact that he does it only when you are alone means he knows it's wrong so I wouldnt tell him myself but I would go straight to his line manager and have them talk to him.

I like the mirror idea too especially if other people approach from behind too, I much prefer having my back to a wall instead of into open space.

Chamomileteaplease · 03/09/2023 12:59

Also, make sure you don't, in your heightened state, apologise! So don't say "Sorry George, I don't like that." You have nothing to apologise for.

I like a PP's suggestion of using the word "actually". "Actually George, I don't like you touching me like that. So please don't do it anymore."

Clear and simple.

Don't get me wrong, you are going to have to psyche yourself up for it but think how pleased you will be with yourself and how brave you will have been. Go for it. I always think it helps to think of various mumsnetters around the UK being there for you and helping you mentally to do it. Good luck!

ChocolateRaisin09 · 03/09/2023 13:07

What a creep, I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this. I hope it hasn't been hanging over you all summer 💐

Appleofmyeye2023 · 03/09/2023 13:12

MidnightOnceMore · 03/09/2023 01:25

I think you just need to put it in writing once and if it happens again report.

This. You must have a written audit trail
write a clear letter to him, email it, and keep the copy
state clearly “on this day, I was (doing this) and you (spell it out explicitly) . If he’s done it more than once- list all the times. . I do not want to be touched kissed/ / called “whatever they called you “. I have given you no reason to infer I consented to your behaviour and it therefore constitutes sexual harassment. If you continue with this behaviour ever again. I will refer the matter to HR.
your sincerely etc

you have to try to address this first directly, unless you feel scared. If he ignores or reacts badly to it, put it in writing to HR and request an urgent meeting with them to address how they intend to put a stop to the behaviour as it is a safeguarding issue.

do not speak directly to him. Avoid being alone with him if at all possible in meantime.

Oxborn · 03/09/2023 13:54

Have you a partner op

Roundandnour · 03/09/2023 13:55

I found a very firm DONT followed quickly moving the chair back helped a lot. Then repeat personal space.

It gives your mind the time to gather thoughts to be able to say, do not touch me. Respect my personal space. Next time you are reported.

No apology. In their minds this validates to them they were correct.
No explanation. Your boundaries are never up for debate. When changing boundaries, don't be swayed by what others want.

He may act suprised or even hurt. This is a him problem. Don't ask why you should care or any question, this gives the green light, but tell him you don't care, not your problem etc.

After, whilst it's still fresh, write it how you would if you were writing a Safe Guarding report.

WallaceinAnderland · 03/09/2023 14:46

If you work in a school you know who the safeguarding officer is and you should definitely report this. I think you may need some more training OP.

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