To pay for private school?

[dancingqueen19]

Just had an argument with a friend and feeling very uneasy.

DS has just started primary school, seems to be settling in well. Met up with a group of university friends earlier who I haven’t seen in a while, and one friend in particular who I’ve always got on well with had made lots of snide comments about private schools, tories etc which I tried to let slide, but after multiple jabs I asked if she had a problem.

In return I got a speech about not being leftist, shouldn’t buy education, I think my kids are better than her kids (certainly not the case). I explained that my boy was late in all his milestones, and I waited until he was 5 to send him to school, not 4 like her boy, as I felt he wasn’t ready.

We are very fortunate and can afford the school, and seeing as the other schools in the area were at capacity, my partner and I felt the smaller class sizes would be better for him, and if there are any issues then hopefully will be picked up quicker. If the local school had classes then he’d have gone there. There is also a local catholic school but I didn’t want him going there - nothing personal just we are not religious at all. I did say to her these reasons, however I did say that I don’t need to justify it, it’s my money and I can send him wherever I want.

Friend went on a big rant as I said calling me a Tory, that I’ve changed (always been left leaning) and he’s not going to be street smart at all (it’s not the poshest of private schools and we live in the city). And that he will be bullied by the local kids.

She knows I attended private school for my last two years (on a scholarship, I grew up VERY working class). My partner grew up quite well off but we both have good jobs and work hard. Neither of us drink much and we’ve only been abroad a few times - we are not frivolous with money at all and private school is something we spent a lot of time discussing.

I’ve never once mentioned that he was going to private school before this meet up, it was only mentioned when someone else commented on the uniform being smart that it came up - I live in a different city to the other friends so they wouldn’t automatically know. And I’m the last of our kids to start school, so they were asking how he was getting on - I wouldn’t have brought it up otherwise as I’m aware how touchy a subject private school is.

I did say to friend that private schools are such a mixed bag, it’s not all snooty folk and some of the mums I’ve chatted to at the school gate all seem perfectly fine - I know two of them from the same nursery DS was at which is nice. I made it clear I didn’t want to discuss this further as I felt I was being attacked, and she ignored me the rest of the afternoon.

It was uncomfortable with none of the other friends saying anything, but I have had a few texts tonight saying they thought she was out of order for picking on me. Im annoyed though as nobody said anything at the time.

however, I’m now questioning a lot about us, class, can I call myself working class if I went to private school and so did my child? Does that make me a Tory even though I’ve always been Labour or Green? Are we bad people? My partner has told me to shush and we pay our taxes and give to charity, that we are good people and we can spend our money where we want. I don’t know whether I’ve let friend into my head too much but I had a cry when I came home as I felt like I was made out to be a terrible person!! Though maybe that was the few wines and I’ll be fine when it’s all out my system.

I know private school is a touchy topic but am I being unreasonable for sending him? Or am I being unreasonable for getting upset about this? Really confused about how I feel

It’s all given me food for thought!

once the wine wore off last night I felt a bit better. It’s interesting as a lot of the comments have made me think.

I suppose growing up very working class and the town I’m from has given me a certain mindset of ‘us vs them’ which I’m conditioned to. Hate the concept of class generally but think it’s pointless not to acknowledge it. but I clearly have issues over being defensive over being seen a certain way politically, probably because of upbringing and social circles. My mum isn’t here anymore but funnily enough my dad has never made comments about us choosing this school, he’s always said it’s about what’s best for DS within our budget - but then again he pushed for me to go to a ‘better’ school I was lucky to attend.

I understand the comments about if you had a left leaning friend who’d used private school you’d be a bit surprised, and very vocal lefties - however I still see it as although I’m now in a fortunate position others aren’t and I shouldn’t change all my political views for that. But I do understand where it’s twisted. I guess I’ve not thought too much about it which is why it threw me. Lots of other friends In this group have made pretty right wing comments before, and the particular friend has right wing views herself regarding immigration and abortion, which is her choice and I’ve never pulled her up for this. I have social media but rarely use it, more for messaging, so I’m not posting on it and sharing leftist sentiments all the time etc, could understand how that could grate like the comment above.

Not heard anything from said friend yet - she’s entitled to her views of course but just felt like she was attacking me for the sake of being nasty. If she apologises then I hope we can move on, I’d be gutted to lose her after knowing her for so long.

found reading the comments to be a mix, which I expected! I guess like the poster above I’ve always considered myself working class but aspirational, as someone said above, but realising now it’s more than that - it’s just I’ve never really thought about it. As we’ve worked hard for years, big savers etc. If one of us lost our jobs we would have to pull him out of this school - so I’ve never put myself in the same category as people with generational wealth etc. and I’ve been very close minded to think it’s as black and white as that (us vs them). It’s food for thought!

The point is that you can make any personal choice you like. But there are some personal choices that mean you can no longer say you adhere to certain principles. You can't use private education and still call yourself of the Left.

I fundamentally disagree with the concept of private schools and would happily see them abolished. But equally I don't judge anyone who sends their child to one (quite a lot of my friends do - I don't). They didn't make the system and it's up to them how they spend their money.

All the middle class people I know who do this, simultaneously use their sharp elbows to move into catchment areas with outstanding state schools. I’m not sure I really see the difference between using your money and privilege to do that, or paying for schooling.

I'm not a fan of private education, and in an ideal world, I think it wouldn't exist. I also think it's a waste of money for many people, though not always.

Regardless of that, I think your friend was incredibly rude. You are doing what you believe is best for your child, which is what every parent should do. Nothing else matters. It is not your friend's place to judge your choices, it is really none of her business.

I don't think I would want to bother much with this friend in the future.

I disagree with this.

As stated above, I'm not a fan of private education and in an ideal world, I don't think it would exist. I sent my dd to a state school, but tbh, I knew that she was the kind of kid who would do well in any school environment. If she had been a different kind of kid, and if I had felt that private school would have really helped her, I would have paid for it without hesitation.

You can want to do your very best for your own child within an imperfect system while simultaneously believing that the system itself should be changed and improved. Some parents might choose to do this by paying for private education. Others might do it by moving to a better catchment or paying for private tutoring. People don't have to sacrifice their own children on the altar of their political beliefs.

I voted YABU for letting her affect you so much. People grow apart and you don't need to stay friends. Park the friendship she shd have no say in what you decide to do with YOUR child!

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves "People don't have to sacrifice their own children on the altar of their political beliefs."
That only works if you believe that sending a child to a state school is "sacrificing" them. I can see why there might be extreme circumstances where this is true but having that as a starting premise is helping to perpetuate private education in this country.

I believe that all children should have access to a good standard of education. I think the existence of private schools in this country has indirectly led to a run down of state education (it Tory party donors' children were going to the local state school; do you think they would care more about state education?)

My DC go to a "good enough" (not amazing) state school. I don't know what I would do if it was a dreadful one. Whether principles or my own children would win out.

I think if you want to send your children to private school then you need to own the decision. You are more wealthy than most familes in the country. You're very definitely not traditional Labour voting working class. If you define yourself as that, then you do need to rethink.

I've never felt my kids had to have the very best education going, this elitist 'what's best for my kid' narrative is something I can't get on board with

As I've said in my post above, I sent my own dd to state schools and I certainly never regarded it as a sacrifice.

However, all children and all schools are different. If another parent genuinely believes that their individual child will be better supported in a particular private school than they would be in the state options that are available to them, then who am I to judge that?

And if they do genuinely believe that private education would be better for their child - regardless of whether they're actually right about that or not - then it would be sacrificing their child to choose the state option for purely political reasons.

It's easy for left wing people to sit in judgement on private school parents when they are confident that their own kids will thrive in the state sector. Personally, I wouldn't judge any parent for wanting to do what they believe is best for their own kid. I would like us to get to work point where nobody feels that they need to make that choice, but we aren't there yet, and parents will do what they can for their dc in the meantime.

Even within the state sector, we don't have a level playing field. Ambitious parents will game the system in a whole variety of ways; private school is just one of them. What we really need is targeted investment to address the inequalities within the state sector so that all kids have a genuine chance to thrive and succeed.

I have been involved with various research projects including educational outcomes and income levels. I reserve my bile for those who rant against private education and are all touchy feely on the left but buy property at an inflated price in an area that has an outstanding school. It’s fine to do this but do not get on your anti private school high horse. Your money has bought an advantage but in a palatable way to you.

DH attended a private school, I didn’t. We met working in the same University. I I knew my child and knew he would do well anywhere. DH did want to send DS to private school, DH is very much nature focussed and I am very much about nurture. He is a scientist whereas I am a social scientist or not a real one as he jokes.

For the intergenerational wealth people like DH family private school is so natural it causes no issue. DH Mum even offered to chip in for fees and we could afford it without her assistance anyway. He ended up going to quite a dodgy school really, he got all A grades at A level. But between us we could tutor DS in all subjects.

Statistically speaking DS had another advantage as he is a bit Chinese, as I am Chinese and all the stats have Chinese and Indian children far outstripping by results all other ethnic groups.

When it comes to others views only you can decide if you can tolerate others views just as they will feel the same about you and your views. Personally I quite like having friends with various views it make for debate. I have met many people on the extreme left, social science faculty does draw them in. To be honest they are pretty tiresome, the hair shirts as the more moderates in my dept called them.

She is just super jealous. I grew up VERY working class too and now my children go to private school. I get loads of comments but why would I send them to the local shit school when I can afford to give them a better education? It is a no brainer really.

There are some statistics I'd really like to see. One is the number of people who genuinely buy themselves into the catchment of good schools. The other is the number of people able to afford private education who live in the catchment of only failing schools.

I never felt that either. My dd went to an incredible state primary and two very average state secondary schools. I never worried because I knew she would thrive and excel regardless.

But if a child has SEN or struggles for some reason, I can absolutely understand a parent wanting to choose the environment that would be best for them. I don't think that's elitist, it is simply about wanting your kid to thrive and be happy.

The left should not get all judgemental about parents wanting to do right by their kids.

I don't think this narrative of "people who don't like private education are actually jealous" is particularly helpful. It comes across as very insecure on the part of the people saying it - that they don't understand why someone would have a different point of view to you, so they must be jealous. If you're happy with your own decision, be happy. Don't run other people down.

There is no doubt that private school both reflects and precipitates advantage for the already advantaged and comparative disadvantage for those who go state schools. These are facts. Look at the pandemic - my kids had close to a year off and 2/3 years of disruption. My friends’ kids were on zoom/teams on day 1 of lockdown. Their education was not interrupted in the same way, and the schools did not (could not - financial imperative) bow to union pressure to down tools. Look at the exam results - 47 v 22 per cent top grades, private v state. It’s by its nature unfair, and the gap has only widened with covid, and with it arguments about levelling the playing field louden.

I have loads of friends who privately educate. I respect most those who say, in a suitably fuck you fashion, ‘I don’t care, I buy my kids this advantage without guilt’. Those (many others) who talk about their own children’s particular justifying characteristics are just annoying, because it presumes that we state educators have none of those issues ourselves. Which of course is rubbish.

op, I have gentle discussions on education with my friends, like any other topic, but wouldn’t bash them with it. If the subject arises, I do point out the social injustice, discuss labour’s plans etc , and we debate like adults. Your friend isn’t wrong in her views, but off in her approach. But for gods sake, own your decision. You don’t have to answer to anyone else, but nor should you kid yourself. You have bought your child a slice of advantage and you need to come to terms with that reality.

"The left should not get all judgemental about parents wanting to do right by their kids."

Personally, I'm not being judgemental. I'm just pointing out that if you hold certain beliefs -eg left wing politics-there are things that you cannot do-eg use private education.

There is one thing being "against" private schools - that is a "point of view" and not necessarily jealously. But ranting and raving at your friend's choice of education for their child in the manner in the OP's post sounds like it has steamed from jealously.

Yes, I agree. In our case, it certainly isn't jealousy. We could have afforded private but preferred to send dd to state. In the majority of cases, I think private is a monumental waste of money.

But equally, if others feel that it is worth the investment for their particular child in their particular circumstances, I think that's a decision for them to make, not me.

I always say that once our income tax is paid we are free to spend our money on whatever we like - be it schools/holidays//cars.

Don't engage further and try to justify it.

People buy and rent in areas where state schools are fantastic. These areas tend to be more expensive because of the schools. Do People also have an issue with spending big money on a house in the hopes of entry into these schools? Or is that just seen as a better investment than paying for education. Would this friend accuse you of being a tory then? Affluence is affluence. Embrace it or deny it, ultimately how much you care is completely up to you. I went to a private boarding school for secondary. I enjoyed it, despite there not being many people that looked like me there 25+ yrs ago. I would have no qualms sending DC to private school if we as a family thought it was the right option.

Well here’s a scenario for the discussion: I pay school fees with the pensions my kids receive because their Dad died when they were 7 & 9.

Death of a parent is a hugely negative and traumatic experience for a child. Are they lucky their dad had a great pension that covers them financially when other kids in a similar position don’t have that? Sure.

Do I feel guilty about using that money to send them to a school that meets their needs? Not one bit. Do I care what other people think of my decision? When you’ve lived my life we can talk.

They’ve lived through a horrendous trauma and their lives have been upended in a way most adults would struggle with. Anyway I can spend the money - the only good thing to come out of it all - to help with that I will.

I understand that. I just don't agree with you.

I think you can choose to do what you think is best for your child within an imperfect system, while believing in and campaigning for a better system in which people would not feel compelled to make such choices.

"People buy and rent in areas where state schools are fantastic."

I don't doubt that this happens. I would really like to know how widespread it is.