Police shoot pregnant woman dead (USA)

[SuddenlyOld]

Ok America, since when did it become normal for police officers to point guns at pregnant women accused of shoplifting?
She didn't have a weapon or get violent. Turns out she hadn't stolen anything either.
If I was black in America I'd be scared to go out 😪😪😪
This is probably the worst thing I've seen ever.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66690408

You need to read their history and what they done. This isn't new.

I have .

@ReginaRegina

There you fucking go!

m.youtube.com/watch?v=VBUUx0jUKxc&pp=QACIAgE%3D&rco=1

No it never happens. Never.

Yes I'm angry because I had to watch that to show you something we all know it fucking happens!! Because we've seen the news!

Of course not. But her driving the car at the officer seems to have been what sparked his split second decision to shoot.

He made a terrible mistake.

But the police are humans like the rest of us at the end of the day, and in this case operating in an environment where most people own guns and black people are over represented in gun crime statistics. It's likely that despite their training many officers will still be subject to the effects of adrenaline and fight or flight mechanisms. In some cases this will inevitably affect their judgement, especially when things start moving quickly or they're put on the spot.

I'd be willing to bet that most two way shootouts start with an uncooperative suspect resisting the police.

Yes, no doubt. But I doubt it was his intention or desire to shoot her from the start. Guns and tense encounters are not a good combination. Here in the UK she would most likely just have been forcibly detained but not killed.

@Carpediemmakeitcount Personally, I think gun violence has got worse since I moved here over 10 years ago (wasn’t that smart of me, it was a job opportunity for DH). At least in our area, the violence has exploded, we never used to have daily shootings.

The truly awful thing is that people become used to it and politicians flap their hands saying it’s awful-but nothing happens.

We’re planning to move as soon as DS finishes high school. DD is now at uni in a much safer state and we just want to get out of here.

But the police are humans like the rest of us at the end of the day, and in this case operating in an environment where most people own guns and black people are over represented in gun crime statistics. It's likely that despite their training many officers will still be subject to the effects of adrenaline and fight or flight mechanisms. In some cases this will inevitably affect their judgement, especially when things start moving quickly or they're put on the spot.

All you're doing is explaining to me what happens when a situation escalates and people get shit scared.

We've already watched that sadly.

The police officers fucked up big time. They are supposed to be trained and in control.
This was a very young woman in her car, not brandishing a weapon, supposedly shop lifting and within a couple of minutes she was blasted with bullets.

They're the POLICE officers. They can expect people to be difficult, obstructive, angry and uncooperative probably everyday.

Do they shoot people everyday?

How is the shooting of a white man anything to do with racial profiling by the police?

Tbh I would say that was a tragic accident too.

My first thought on watching that video was 'why were armed police already waiting in the corridor'? I knew there was likely going to be more to the story.

And of course it turns out they'd responded to reports of a rifle being pointed out the window, which seem to be true to some extent as an air rifle was found in the room. So the police turn up expecting to find an armed suspect. They warn him to keep his hands in view and then he reaches behind him towards the area where you would usually have a holster and they shoot.

This seems like more of a tragic misunderstanding. The guy looked drunk and was probably trying to pull up his trousers but appearing to reach for a gun is not a great move when you're dealing with armed police who think you're carrying a weapon.

The jury acquitted the police officer and this shooting had no racial element so I don't really see the relevance tbh.

I would say that example above is a lot less questionable than the lady in the car. They had reason to believe the suspect was armed and only fired when he reached for the hip after being warned already. Sadly he was most likely drunk and terrified so wasn't thinking straight, but pointing a realistic looking rifle out the window wouldn't have helped his situation in a country where mass shootings happen daily.

She wasn't going to kill the officer was she but he shot her and now the two officers are working in admin. The officer killed her for no reason he is a murderer. There gun laws are more important than lives nothing will change.

Not all cars in the US are automatic.

@HoldOnMiGenna - referring to her as a dunce bat? ironic given this diatribe

@ReginaRegina then google sean monterossa or charles kinsey. And many other examples.

Once you add shot in the back /while fleeing (while still unarmed) the cases increase.

Ofc , they are all accidents and misunderstandings and mistakes. Because all a police officer has to say is "i thought he had a gun" and that suddenly makes it all go away. And when that doesn't work some start hiding or destroying evidence. Also, conveniently, a lot of the case don't have body cam footage, it's not aimed at the victim or they refuse to release it.

I would say that example above is a lot less questionable than the lady in the car.

Nah, you know what? I give up. I just hope you're never on the receiving end of an aggressive police force, even here in the UK. It doesn't always end well for women.

Yes, amongst many thousands of police officers/incidents there will always be outright miscarriages of justice and bad cops. But there will also be tense situations and misunderstandings which really don't benefit from escalation when guns are involved.

I've seen posters on here claiming that lone women should be able to carry guns for self defence and I sometimes picture that scenario.

Imagine you're out running at night and you're approached by a man acting discernibly oddly. You're on edge because there have been some sexual assaults in the area recently and you draw your gun after he refuses to back off. You warn him not to take another step towards you but he keeps coming.

How many of you just shot the man with learning difficulties who was lost and panicked?

Not all cars in the US are automatic.

What not every single one?!

@AngryGreasedSantaCatcus - of course the next question will be “well why did he run if he was innocent?” (subtext - justification of the killing)

Er, perhaps because he is in fear for his life and the flight instinct has kicked in?

If you want victims who were shot while complying look at Philando Castile.

He pulled over immediately when flagged by police. He was polite to the officers when they spoke to him. He told them, as he was required to do, that he had a firearm. Seconds later he was shot 7 times in front of his 4-year-old child and his girlfriend.

Or Adam Toledo.

At 2:38:38 am police yell at him to put up his hands while he is running from them.
At 2:38:39 he stops running.
At 2:30:40 he raises his empty hands into the air.
At 2:30:41 he is lying on the floor bleeding out having been shot several times.

He was 13 years old.

The police gave him little more than 2 seconds to comply before gunning him down in the street.

Compliance doesn't always mean you walk away with your life when it comes to the US police.

Anyone see this story last month?

Sends shivers down my spine.

https://mississippitoday.org/2023/08/03/six-rankin-officers-plead-guilty-to-torturing-two-black-men/

How many of you just shot the man with learning difficulties who was lost and panicked?

Seriously what are you talking about @ReginaRegina ? I'm not a police man. I'm not required to deal with these sort of situations on a regular basis.

These police fucked up. It took them about 2 mins to deal with an unarmed , uncooperative, pregnant girl just out of her teens.

They escalated and dealt with this situation about as badly as they could. Could they have dealt with any worse?

Ok, I googled Charles Kinsey and it seems the officer who non-fatally shot him in the leg wasn't even aiming at him. He was over 150ft away and thought that the metal object in Kinsey's patient's hand was a gun, and had also been told that by members of the public.

He said he thought he saw a black man being held hostage and tried to shoot the person who seemed to be holding a gun to him. It likely didn't help that the police were already looking for an armed suicidal man and that the patient had mental difficulties and refused to drop what they thought was a gun.

So they were actually attempting to save the life of black man but accidentally shot him due to firing from over 150ft away.

This just doesn't sound anything like the police spitefully shooting black people out of racial intolerance. It's literally the opposite but they just bungled it.

I've no doubt the police commit some egregious crimes but trying to put this label on situations that really don't fit the mould doesn't help your argument at all. It's just a lazy kneejerk reaction/interpretation to a completely unrelated situation. Trying to shoehorn in racism where there isn't any.

The victim blaming ( but she was uncooperative^ ) apologist ( but how would you react? ) stereotyping ( but she was a low income person in an expensive car )^
what do you expect ( she didn't comply )
on this thread is shocking.

I'm embarrassed for you.

Yeah but the officer could have reacted out of fear too. If you take 2021s stats for instance he as a policeman was 6 times more likely to be run over and killed by her than she was to be shot by him. To quote you people don't always react in a rational way. Police are people at the end of the day. Should they react out if fear? Probably not no but they aren't robots, they don't have an override button.

It shouldn't be that way, police shouldn't have to fear for their lives doing their jobs and people shouldn't have to fear for their lives when dealing with the police. But when everyone is scared as often seems to be the case in the US bad things are going to happen sometimes. There is no way to take back guns now in the US, there are too many, no one knows just how many or where they are so that is life as shitty as it is. Police will get killed, the general public will get killed, kids will get killed and it is past the point of 'banning guns'.

While Kinsey lay on the ground with his hands raised, one officer, North Miami Police Department Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) team member Jonathan Aledda, who was 152 feet (46 m) away, said he thought the patient was holding the therapist hostage and that the small silver toy truck being clutched by the patient was a gun, following a report made by a passing female motorist, at whom the patient had pointed the toy truck which the motorist believed appeared to be a firearm, and a dispatch to the police officers that there was a "male with a gun".[4][9][10] Aledda said "It appeared he [the Black therapist] was screaming for mercy or for help or something. In my mind, the white male [the patient] had a gun. I couldn't hear what the black man was saying. In my mind, I thought he might get shot."[10][4] Aledda said he had not aimed at Kinsey, but rather had been aiming at Rios-Soto, who he believed was threatening the therapist with a gun.[10] Aledda fired three .223 caliber rounds from his Colt M4 Carbine rifle, which did not have advanced optical sights, with one bullet striking Kinsey in the right leg.[2][9][3][11] The shooting occurred a block from the group home where Kinsey worked at 1365 NE 128th St.[12]

Kinsey's lawyer Hilton Napoleon II provided the Miami Herald with a cellphone video of Kinsey lying on the ground, his hands in the air, moments before the shooting.[7] The man who took the video initially thought that the patient had a gun in his hands.

I agree

I am in no doubt if the victim was a white women (less likely as we know) the responses wouldn’t ne so understanding towards the police or judgemental towards her