Page 33 | Police shoot pregnant woman dead (USA)

SuddenlyOld · 2023-09-02T06:35:28+00:00

Ok America, since when did it become normal for police officers to point guns at pregnant women accused of shoplifting? She didn't have a weapon or get violent. Turns out she hadn't stolen anything either. If I was black in America I'd be scared to go out 😪😪😪 This is probably the worst thing I've seen ever. [[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66690408 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66690408]]

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 03/09/2023 22:04

HamBone · 03/09/2023 21:52

@cakeorwine I've looked up the laws regarding police stops in Ohio where this incident took place:https://www.ohiobar.org/my-ohio-rights/police-stops/

As the police had “reasonable suspicion” that she’d been shoplifting, they did have the right to stop her and she was required to do the following:

Under Ohio law, if you are stopped by the police, you are required to tell them your name, address and date of birth. If you do not provide the police with this information, you can
be arrested and charged with a misdemeanor of the fourth
degree. If you are 18 years old or older, a misdemeanor of the
fourth degree is punishable by up to 30 days in jail and/or a
fine of up to $250. If you are under 18 years old, you could
receive a fine of up to $100 and time in a juvenile detention
center.

If you are driving a motor vehicle, Ohio law also requires you
to show a driver’s license if requested by a police officer.

So under Ohio law, she was legally obliged to stop.

Of course, none of the above justifies shooting her and there’ll be a protracted court case and lawsuit.

Where does it say she had to get out of the car? At no point did they ask her for her name or licence and registration. They're just asking her to get out of the car. You know, if we're going by the book.

HamBone · 03/09/2023 22:08

@AngryGreasedSantaCatcus I’m not justifying what happened, I saw the previous discussion about police powers so I looked up the law in Ohio.

sunglassesonthetable · 03/09/2023 22:10

Do those drills involve resisting arrest and driving cars at the police?

She wouldn't get out of the car , she wasn't being arrested.

There is no consensus that she was " driving a car at the policeman."

HamBone · 03/09/2023 22:11

@Frequency I don’t think anyone would disagree with you.

I was mainly trying to explain just how different it is in the US compared to the UK. Here, you do run the risk of being shot if you don’t comply with a police stop. It’s not right, but that’s the situation until we finally have some political leadership willing to address the issue. And I’m not holding my breath.

cakeorwine · 03/09/2023 22:12

HamBone · 03/09/2023 22:08

@AngryGreasedSantaCatcus I’m not justifying what happened, I saw the previous discussion about police powers so I looked up the law in Ohio.

As I said, the police powers we were discussing were in the UK. Which is why I quoted Liberty and UK leglisation.

On the first contact bit, there are plenty of videos showing the initial contact with US police (and also UK police now). There are people who do film them and who do know their rights and also police who do know the law as well as police officers who don't know the law and their powers.

I know my rights and I am not sure how I would interact with the police - it depends on the circumstances. I know how the police have abused their powers under the new protest laws and I don't trust them in particular situations.

Carpediemmakeitcount · 03/09/2023 22:20

sunglassesonthetable · 03/09/2023 20:45

Having had previous contact with the Police she knew how she should behave in the situation she was in.*

So she likely knew she would be shot ?

Do you think the policeman knew how to behave ?

@Carpediemmakeitcount

No a lot of the officers are from the army/military. They react first then think after. I would never visit America and I feel sorry for them and what they put up with. We have our issues in the UK but compared to the US. Donald Trump's father was a white supremacist part of the KKK and they voted him him knowing that. That's fucked up.

sunglassesonthetable · 03/09/2023 22:20

I do think that her being in an expensive car without plates is relevant because it would build up the picture in your mind of who you are dealing with.

I don't disagree that seeing an expensive car with no plates build up a picture @Inmybirthdaysuit I agree.

I'm questioning the poster who said they'd question " a low income person driving an expensive car".

The police did everything to escalate the situation. Everyone criticising the victim for not complying, should be criticising the policemen for stoking and pumping the situation even before the shots were fired.

Basically it's a society where anybody has a gun. Everyone is frightened and on guard.

That policeman made a terrible mistake.

ArabeIIaScott · 03/09/2023 22:22

Fucking hell. I can't watch the footage, I'm sorry. But that is just horrific.

That poor woman, and her poor child.

ReginaRegina · 03/09/2023 22:23

iamwhatiam23 · 03/09/2023 19:44

Can someone please explain how the police force ( in general) are supposed to uphold the laws and keep peace and order if people think its ok to just not do as they are asked/ told to by a police officer because they insert various random excuses here are female, black, asian etc?

But she was so terrified she couldn't stop herself arguing with them and trying to drive off!

Maggiethecat · 03/09/2023 22:23

@HamBone - rational thinking may not necessarily overtake your fear of being shot though.

and people may feel that they’re just as likely to be shot outside as inside the car - who knows what goes through the mind when a gun is pointed at you.

the officer may have been used to being in threatening situations but even he was scared of leaving his vehicle. How fucked up is that?

sunglassesonthetable · 03/09/2023 22:24

But she was so terrified she couldn't stop herself arguing with them and trying to drive off!

Are you sayng you know what every version of terrified looks like @ReginaRegina ?

cakeorwine · 03/09/2023 22:24

That policeman made a terrible mistake

I am sure this video will be replayed in police training for years to come.

It could be paused at so many points and recruits asked to think how they would approach the car, what they see, would they have weapons drawn, why, what would they say to the person in the car and how would they attract the attention?

Would they get training on alternate ways to approach, ways of talking to someone?

And who would deliver that training?

FP1000 · 03/09/2023 22:30

penelopelady · 02/09/2023 07:50

I wonder if they will be tried under the ridiculous abortion laws as well? (Note I don't know the law in this state)
Poor woman and her family.

No it's clear you don't know the law in any state!

HamBone · 03/09/2023 22:32

@sunglassesonthetable Yes, the policeman made a terrible mistake and yes@Maggiethecat , the situation here is fucked up, but I don’t know how it’s going to change.

That's why I personally advocate compliance, because I know I’m more likely to be shot if I don’t. I don’t mean to victim-blame, but realistically, that’s the safest option.

sunglassesonthetable · 03/09/2023 22:32

But she was so terrified she couldn't stop herself arguing with them and trying to drive off!

And if you aren't terrified enough, @ReginaRegina you should be shot?

Or you should be shot for arguing and not getting out of a car?

sunglassesonthetable · 03/09/2023 22:35

That's why I personally advocate compliance, because I know I’m more likely to be shot if I don’t. I don’t mean to victim-blame, but realistically, that’s the safest option.

I mentioned early on in the the thread that my brother who lives in the US, advocates keeping your hands on the dash board , if you are stopped by the police in a car.

What a awful awful time to be living.

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 03/09/2023 22:35

But she was so terrified she couldn't stop herself arguing with them and trying to drive off!

Fight, flight, freeze, fawn.

I've seen women/girls flirt with people in authority (police,transport police ,traffic cops) to a ridiculous degree that doesn't mean they weren't scared.

I'm a mix between freeze and ridiculously compliant, which is not always safe either.

People can do a mix of these, or get stuck into one mode. They don't always act in a rational way when they're not thinking rationally. There isn't a single appropriate reaction to fear.

Or do you also think that if a woman orgasmed then she wasn't raped?

sunglassesonthetable · 03/09/2023 22:36

@HamBone

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 03/09/2023 22:39

HamBone · 03/09/2023 22:32

@sunglassesonthetable Yes, the policeman made a terrible mistake and yes@Maggiethecat , the situation here is fucked up, but I don’t know how it’s going to change.

That's why I personally advocate compliance, because I know I’m more likely to be shot if I don’t. I don’t mean to victim-blame, but realistically, that’s the safest option.

Tbh I agree with you in the sense that it reduces risk, not to 0, but in general it should reduce the risk of being hurt/killed.

That is not victim blaming , as long as we acknowledge that 1.people react differently when scared and 2. Non compliance shouldn't mean being shot.

ReginaRegina · 03/09/2023 22:40

sunglassesonthetable · 03/09/2023 22:24

But she was so terrified she couldn't stop herself arguing with them and trying to drive off!

Are you sayng you know what every version of terrified looks like @ReginaRegina ?

No, but a clear narrative is being pushed here. I think it's more likely she wasn't expecting them to call her bluff and tried to drive off.

There are reams of videos of people arguing with the police for 5-10 minutes before being forcibly removed from their cars. Thankfully, most don't end up getting shot but I've always thought that one of these instances might not end well. Fact is, a lot of people refuse to accept the police's authority and it doesn't help de-escalate the situation.

I've yet to see a video of a calm and cooperative person being gunned down. I keep reading that the police still shoot people who stop, so presumably there are a fair few examples of this, right? Can anybody name a few so I know what we're talking about?

ReginaRegina · 03/09/2023 22:46

sunglassesonthetable · 03/09/2023 22:32

But she was so terrified she couldn't stop herself arguing with them and trying to drive off!

And if you aren't terrified enough, @ReginaRegina you should be shot?

Or you should be shot for arguing and not getting out of a car?

Of course not. But her driving the car at the officer seems to have been what sparked his split second decision to shoot.

She escalated the situation by arguing and refusing to get out the car. They further escalated by drawing weapons. She then drove at them which was what, tipped the scales.

sunglassesonthetable · 03/09/2023 22:48

No, but a clear narrative is being pushed here. I think it's more likely she wasn't expecting them to call her bluff and tried to drive off.

And? So they shot her.
*
There are reams of videos of people arguing with the police for 5-10 minutes before being forcibly removed from their cars. Thankfully, most don't end up getting shot but I've always thought that one of these instances might not end well. Fact is, a lot of people refuse to accept the police's authority and it doesn't help de-escalate the situation.*

It doesn't. But the police are the ones dealing with difficult, uncooperative people as THEIR JOB, they should be de escalating the situation.

Not shooting an unarmed, uncooperative person within barely a couple of minutes.

I've yet to see a video of a calm and cooperative person being gunned down. I keep reading that the police still shoot people who stop, so presumably there are a fair few examples of this, right? Can anybody name a few so I know what we're talking about?*

Carpediemmakeitcount · 03/09/2023 22:49

The 2nd Amendment has been around since 25th September 1789 it's outdated and dangerous. A black man is minding his business jogging and he is shot and the lie they used was because they thought he was burgling houses. Guns has not served any purpose and people are dead. School children bring guns to school to shoot their teacher and the other children.

When you read these stories or you watch it on the news do Americans value human life with the amount of blood they have on their hands for allowing it to happen.

sunglassesonthetable · 03/09/2023 22:50

No, but a clear narrative is being pushed here. I think it's more likely she wasn't expecting them to call her bluff and tried to drive off.

And? So they shot her.
*
There are reams of videos of people arguing with the police for 5-10 minutes before being forcibly removed from their cars. Thankfully, most don't end up getting shot but I've always thought that one of these instances might not end well. Fact is, a lot of people refuse to accept the police's authority and it doesn't help de-escalate the situation.*

It doesn't. But the police are the ones dealing with difficult, uncooperative people as THEIR JOB, they should be de escalating the situation.

Not shooting an unarmed, uncooperative person within barely a couple of minutes.

I've yet to see a video of a calm and cooperative person being gunned down. I keep reading that the police still shoot people who stop, so presumably there are a fair few examples of this, right? Can anybody name a few so I know what we're talking about

Poor police not being able to deal with some one who is not calm and co operative without blasting into their body.

Carpediemmakeitcount · 03/09/2023 22:51

sunglassesonthetable · 03/09/2023 22:35

That's why I personally advocate compliance, because I know I’m more likely to be shot if I don’t. I don’t mean to victim-blame, but realistically, that’s the safest option.

I mentioned early on in the the thread that my brother who lives in the US, advocates keeping your hands on the dash board , if you are stopped by the police in a car.

What a awful awful time to be living.

You need to read their history and what they done. This isn't new.