Police shoot pregnant woman dead (USA)

[SuddenlyOld]

Ok America, since when did it become normal for police officers to point guns at pregnant women accused of shoplifting?
She didn't have a weapon or get violent. Turns out she hadn't stolen anything either.
If I was black in America I'd be scared to go out 😪😪😪
This is probably the worst thing I've seen ever.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66690408

And you got it wrong.
The public do NOT have to obey an order from a police.

It depends on the order.

cakeorwine
You don't have to comply and obey the police

It's legal for the police to detain you - with good reason.

t's still my opinion that the first officer who approached the car (confusingly named as Officer 2) initially tapped or rapped on the car windows. In fact, the more video footage I see ofOfficer 2I think his response was quite reasonable - not least because he was approaching someone sitting in a car without plates, but a store member had just pointed the driver out as being involved in a crime. At no time can I see him take out his gun and his stance appears non-threatening

He didn't take his gun out.
I would argue that the way he banged on the window and his communication at the start was poor. He repeated the same phrase several times.

"Get out of the car"

How about "Excuse me madam, could you stop your engine please? "

It may sound polite and courteous to some but it could have got a different response. Rather than banging on the window and saying "Stop the car"

Clearly he didn't feel threatened as his gun wasn't out. There are plenty of videos of police approaching cars and speaking to the occupant corteously.

Yes.

With good reason.
But you don't have to obey an order.
Unless there is a good reason from the police.

@cakeorwine you are being pedantic and twisting what i said! There will generally be consequences for not responding in a decent manner when asked by a police officer to do something 🤷‍♀️

How could they have pulled the details of a car with no license plates ?

@Clavinova and what do you think about Officer 2 lying about his arm being stuck in the car window?

I am quoting what you said.

You said people HAVE to obey an order from a police officer.

You are wrong.

There may be consequences - and also consequences for the police if they go beyond their lawful powers.

I would argue that the way he banged on the window and his communication at the start was poor. He repeated the same phrase several times.

"Get out of the car"

How about "Excuse me madam, could you stop your engine please? "*

This, exactly. Police are trained to deal with people to avoid exactly what just happened. The woman's behaviour is being analysed by some much more than the police officers, who are the trained professionals. They instigated contact with her and the first point of contact was absolutely wrong on their part. Every move both of them made after that point escalated the situation rapidly. Over some stolen alcohol. It starts and ends with them.

@Inmybirthdaysuit if that's the case you should never be a police officer.

@HamBone - you may have heard black people in the US express fear of being stopped by the police while driving for fear of being shot.

Do you know of the army officer who was pulled over and when told to get out, hand in air and remaining seated, said he was afraid. The cop said he should be afraid.

This was a serving officer with a gun pointed at him who was afraid ffs!!

He will have known that despite his uniform, colour based presumptions would have been made against him.

It’s easy to sit here and say why don’t people just comply.

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/black-soldier-suing-police-violent-stop-caught-camera/story?id=96294185

I saw that video.
There's a follow up

Police officer who pepper-sprayed US Army soldier fired - BBC News

In a statement, officials in the town of Windsor in Virginia said the incident had resulted in "disciplinary action, and department-wide requirements for additional training were implemented beginning in January and continue up to the present".
"Since that time, Officer Gutierrez was also terminated from his employment," it added.

Body cams have been so helpful with these type of incidents.

And how exactly would they do this, given that there were no license plates on the car ?

But it never happens.
And if it does it's no big deal.
And if it is it's not that bad.
And if it is they made them do it.

I thought she was "known to the police" and that is why they behaved so aggressively towards her. Either she is known or she is not. It cannot be both.

However, they could have taken a description of her and her car and circulated it on their radio. You know, how they do when they have to find most suspects?

Once again, how ? There were no license plates on the car .

Was it an invisible car? I don't understand how they could not have circulated a description of it because it has no plates. No plates is a description.

@cakeorwine I've looked up the laws regarding police stops in Ohio where this incident took place:https://www.ohiobar.org/my-ohio-rights/police-stops/

As the police had “reasonable suspicion” that she’d been shoplifting, they did have the right to stop her and she was required to do the following:

Under Ohio law, if you are stopped by the police, you are required to tell them your name, address and date of birth. If you do not provide the police with this information, you can
be arrested and charged with a misdemeanor of the fourth
degree. If you are 18 years old or older, a misdemeanor of the
fourth degree is punishable by up to 30 days in jail and/or a
fine of up to $250. If you are under 18 years old, you could
receive a fine of up to $100 and time in a juvenile detention
center.

If you are driving a motor vehicle, Ohio law also requires you
to show a driver’s license if requested by a police officer.

So under Ohio law, she was legally obliged to stop.

Of course, none of the above justifies shooting her and there’ll be a protracted court case and lawsuit.

@Frequency

Oh as usual the victim is Shroedinger's perp, simultaneously unknown and impossible to track/apprehend otherwise AND dangerous, with the police having a full name, track record and her bra size.

@Rosscameasdoody

African American woman, early 20's driving an x make car, y colour,no plates heading south on....

We were talking about UK laws in that conversation - not Ohio laws.

You couldn't pay me enough to be a garda here in Ireland nevermind a police woman in the States so the public is safe from me! I do still have sympathy though for the shit they have to put up with while just doing their jobs, people expect them to be lovely at all times when it comes to dealing with the public but at the same time we they are being abused, driven at, fearing for their safety they expect robots. There is no understanding at all for the fact that for as long as we employ humans to enact the law they are going to act like humans sometimes.

@Maggiethecat That was my point really, encounters with the police are frightening here, because we know that they’re armed. I agree that it’s significantly worse for POC.

But complying is safer than not complying, IMO. It’s a horrible situation and I wish the government would learn from other countries’ examples. But that’s unlikely to happen.

I don't understand why people are tying themselves in knots to make it her fault. A young woman has lost her life. Two children are left without a mother. All for the sake of a couple of bottles of alcohol (which it turns out she didn't take anyway).

If the police are ever in an impossible situation where are they dealing with a person who is simultaneously known to be a dangerous offender and also utterly unknown and impossible to describe, driving a plateless, invisible car, accused of a minor crime and their only options are to shoot her dead or let her go scot free with no chance of ever catching her again then I absolutely believe they should let her go.

Do those drills involve resisting arrest and driving cars at the police?