Police shoot pregnant woman dead (USA)

[SuddenlyOld]

Ok America, since when did it become normal for police officers to point guns at pregnant women accused of shoplifting?
She didn't have a weapon or get violent. Turns out she hadn't stolen anything either.
If I was black in America I'd be scared to go out 😪😪😪
This is probably the worst thing I've seen ever.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66690408

The situation of the young woman is, luckily, unimaginable for the majority of us, but try to imagine.

You are a young, heavily pregnant black woman in a country that is horrifically racist. Your own police force is renowned for killing people of your race with little to no reason and when they do not shoot and kill them they almost always use excessive force to restrain them.

You are suddenly approached by two men, bellowing at you and brandishing guns. They will not tell you why they are shouting at you.

Are you really saying "common sense" would prevail over fight or flight?

I also looked out of curiosity, and couldn't find any police officers killed in the line of duty and no murders in general in Blendon Township. Violent crime seems to be pretty low in general.

They were massively overkill but it's extremely unlikely they'd have shot her if she hasn't refused arrest.

Not good enough.

Yes, but resisting arrest generally doesn't tend to help de-escalate things.

And shooting at point blank range tends to kill people.

Despite their often shocking departure from policy they don't generally tend to just shoot calm non resisting people, even in the US.

I remember the rioting here in the UK when a black guy was shot about a decade ago. People conveniently weren't mentioning that he'd beaten the shit into his partner, seriously injuring her, then attacked the ambulance crew who attempted to treat her, then approached the attending police with a metal bar and refused to drop it.

And the other similar case where there was outrage when the police shot an 'unarmed' man. They'd claimed to have seen him with a weapon but one wasn't found on his person. People conveniently ignored the fact that a handgun was found in a garden right by the scene and seemed to want to believe it just happened to be there rather than having been thrown during the pursuit. And of course neither guy was a stranger to the police.

There are massive racial issues with the police no doubt, especially in the US, but I'm not a fan of the kneejerk reactions either as often there's more to the story. I'm defo more afraid of criminals/gangs than police in the city I live in tbh.

I don't understand how it got to them having their guns drawn anyway. Apparently, they were at the store attending another incident when an employee approached them, pointed at the victim, and said she had shoplifted. They then immediately ran at the victim bellowing and waving guns.

It's just totally baffling to me. Surely, the correct procedure would be to calmly approach the accused and question them. At the point they rushed at her, guns drawn, they had literally no evidence against her. Nor did they have a full statement from the shop employee.

If your first reaction is to draw your gun and start screaming when confronted with a minor crime you have no business being in the police force.

The original cop just went in full throttle.

Banging on the window - which is going to get someone panicked.

Then yelling "Stop, stop". You can hear his voice and they way he communicates. No politeness. Just command words.

I wonder if he would have been the same with someone from a different background in the car?

The other one didn't even seem to ask the original cop what was going on. He just goes in front of the car.

Excellent post, ReginaRegina, especially the bit about the full story being conveniently ignored even when more becomes known

Naturally the fuller story on this one will have to wait on the inquiry, but that's not good enough for some so we get armchair verdicts of murder and very obvious agenda-driven claims about the police even in the face of all evidence to the contrary

And I'm honestly not sure who that's supposed to help

Despite their often shocking departure from policy they don't generally tend to just shoot calm non resisting people, even in the US.

One would hope they don't generally rush at young, pregnant women with their guns drawn either but that clearly wasn't the case here.

If she had got out of the car would they have calmly holstered their guns and spoken to her with civility or would they have thrown her onto the ground and forcibly restrained her? Because looking at the venom with which they approached her I cannot imagine any situation in which she could have escaped being assaulted in one way or the other.

Maybe if she had gotten out of the car she would still be alive but I really do not think she had a chance of not being assaulted and injured. Those officers decided from the off that they were going to act with violence. That much is clear in the video.

And I'm honestly not sure who that's supposed to help

I'm not convinced it helps anyone. It's not really surprising that some people panic when encountering the police given the number of threads that'll have you believing they'll shoot any POC on sight! It borders on irresponsible at times despite the existence of genuine issues.

Did you watch the right video?

In the one being discussed they don't 'rush over with guns drawn' and they aren't yelling. It starts with them standing there repeating "get out of the car" again and again.

It's clear from the first few seconds that the victim isn't complying but there's nothing to suggest they intend to attack her. It then escalates horribly but I'm still not convinced it couldn't have been resolved by cooperation and a civil conversation.

She wasn't cooperating and then drove at them, either intentionally or by mistake, and they reacted severely.

If the perpetrator was a young white man driving into the officer and refusing to get out.. the outcome would be the same.

Recent studies have actually found that police are more likely to shoot at a white male and the reasons suggested were that they were cautious around the racial element and being perceived of injustice etc.

@ReginaRegina , apologies, you are right. I've just rewatched the video and it was not a gun he had in his hand when he ran at her. I'm not sure what it was, a taser maybe or a tool he was using to try and break into the other car. I wouldn't say he was calmly asking her to get out of the car though. He did run at her and he was shouting and banging on her car. It's hardly the right way to start a polite conversation.

When you feel fear your reactions change

the police are aware of this and certainly if they are able to carry a loaded gun they should be fully trained in how to deal with peoples reactions

Ta'Kiya Young had done nothing to warrant such an aggressive response from the police even if she had been stealing from the ahop (which she hadn’t) the police officers response was aggressive and threatening

how would I react having a gun pointed at me by an aggressive police officer I don’t know and neither do you would we comply or would a fight/flight response kick in this is why it is absolutely essential police are fully trained

and then there is the fact that we are all aware of the police are shooting too many innocent black people so no doubt this impacts how people feel

@ReginaRegina can you link to that research please?

Are we watching the same video?? The police were terrifyingly aggressive from the start. They escalated the situation and were brandishing guns around. They refused to even answer the woman’s legitimate questions they just kept yelling at her.

In the one being discussed they don't 'rush over with guns drawn' and they aren't yelling. It starts with them standing there repeating "get out of the car" again and again

It's not yelling but it's not good communication. Banging on the window saying "Out of the car. Out of the car". It's constant repeating of the same phrase with his hands waving.

"They said you stole something. Do not leave"

The other officer is in front of the car with his gun drawn. You can see that in the second video. You can see his finger on the trigger.

It's not really surprising that some people panic when encountering the police given the number of threads that'll have you believing they'll shoot any POC on sight! It borders on irresponsible at times despite the existence of genuine issues

Exactly - and this is what I meant about the hyperbole really not helping

Fearful people are often not in a position to make the best decisions, so while acknowledging the issues which DO exist, why seek to make the threat sound so much worse than it is?

They're still shouting at her to "stop the fucking car" while she's dying ffs!!

Do you think that videos that show potential police sexism, racism, homophobia etc should not be discussed then because by highlighting such issues, it makes people afraid of the police?

So let me get this straight: a young ,
lone pregnant woman was executed by the police in broad daylight in a car park. There’s video footage which clearly shows she was brandishing no gun. The worst she was accused of was shoplifting (and it’s not clear that she had even done so) and your reaction is “ohh let’s not exaggerate the threat the police pose”, by highlighting this profound injustice. 😡

Of course not; where this kind of thing exists I actively want to know about it, since it's only by giving them daylight that changes can be made

I believe, however, that we can well do without some of the nonsense which accompanies them ...

It’s locked in a spiral. People are afraid of the police so they don’t cooperate with them. The police get aggressive because the person isn’t cooperating. Out come the guns and someone winds up dead. The next person who encounters the police is more afraid and so doesn’t cooperate. And on it goes..

It’s an endless cycle that somehow needs breaking but I don’t know how.

Is that relevant in this instance though? Because looking at the footage just posted above, you can see they've drawn a weapon at someone suspected of a minor crime. She had already asked the other guy are you going to shoot me though'. They ran in aggressively and did nothing to reassure her or make her feel like a reasonable discussion would take place. She had every reason to believe in this instance, she would be harmed by two aggressive officers, one with a weapon pointing at her. I can;t imagine the fear I would feel at an officer saying 'they said you stole alcohol' while another officer had a gun pointing at me over it. For a minor crime, already it is a dangerous situation for her.