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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to tell you reviewing your GCSE paper isn't "free"

393 replies

BorrowedThyme · 01/09/2023 17:45

I've never begrudged putting aside a few hours for genuine disappointing shock grades, or when a student has so nearly made the grade they need for their next stage.

But this year it has gone totally over the top.

And recalling GCSE papers for the school to review is NOT "free" - it just doesn't cost the parent anything, that is all. It relies either on teachers volunteering their spare time, or the school employing an additional, qualified person to do it.

I spent 25-30 hours in the last week of the holiday doing this, and now have a whole new list to somehow try and cram in to a single weekend

My head of department has already contacted some parents to say no, we are not doing it for such and such a student, and honestly, you would think we were chopping their kids hands off, or something, the abuse, and threats and accusations we get!

Some of the students we have said no to have already got their sixth form places, and don't need to check their grades, some are so far from the next grade up that they are many times more likely to go down than up, and some have got exactly what was predicted, anyway.

Occasionally a grade goes up, but it is very rare, and in genuine cases, I am happy to spend the time checking. Most of the cases we are getting requested now though, are not genuine! None of the papers I have checked this year are going up, although several might actual go down if the parents take it further.

So please, before expecting this service for the school, keep in mind

a) Is it necessary? Not if your child has got their sixth form place or apprenticeship, or whatever they wanted.

b) Is it likely? Parents often over estimate their children's likely GCSE grades, particularly if they have helped them revise, and marked a few mock papers, etc- children perform best in a one to one situation with a lot of encouragement, such as they might get at home with a parent, but this is not how they are assessed.

c) Somebody has to be just below the next grade boundary! That is how grade boundaries work!

d) Some grade bands are very narrow - being 3 marks off a 6 could actually be 2 marks from a 4.

e) It isn't a case of " just finding one more mark" - the marking has to be withing a tolerance. 2 examiners might mark the same paper differently, but that does not mean one is right and one is wrong. Yes, I find marks in the papers that I would have given that the examiner has not, but I also find marks the examiner has given that I would not, and overall, the mark comes out the same, or virtually the same. The grade is not going to be changed over a disagreement about fractions of marks. It needs to be a substantial difference for the grade to be changed, and not a case of strict or lenient marking.

Yes, it is sometimes worth having a look at the papers, no it is not worth this wholesale demand that has developed this year.

If this school review system continues to be abused, I expect it will be withdrawn very soon!

OP posts:
FinallyMrsT · 01/09/2023 22:45

Now call me thick
How do people know If grades are 2 marks off or whatever is this simply off the script reviews by the teachers?
OP I do feel for you. I'm not sure how this can be allowed. As much as budgets don't cover it but overtime should ve offered for instances like this. It happens in the hospitals.

My step son didn't do great on his gcses. I wouldn't ask for reviews because despite his initial predictions he's not given a slight bit of effort to his exams and I do think this is the consequence. Albeit 1 he genuinely cared about and tried hard came 3 grades below what we were expecting. But he didn't revise he didn't care. We tried so hard to encourage but he avoided us because his mum said not to bother and that's the main parent here. Me and his dad are gutted but honestly we wouldn't have a clue we're to start on asking for reviews as far as we are aware no teacher approached them on results day so I suspect its as expected for him.
I would prefer more understanding.

modernisthouse · 01/09/2023 22:47

Haven't read all of this but my dd was 1 mark off a 9 in two subjects (that she was predicted 9s for). I wouldn't have pushed for remarking (because there has to a boundary somewhere, and of course an 8 is still fantastic!) and dd wasn't fussed either.

HOWEVER, school got in touch with her and strongly encouraged her to submit both for review. It's not free - about £40 each, but this might be because it's a private school. They do refund the cost if the grade changes...

I also think think general terms the numerical system isn't great for perfectionist types (thankfully dd isn't, but a lot of her friends are!) In the old days if you got an A it was an A that was the best one could don - none of the 7/8/9 stuff, which can makes kids feel disappointed in very decent grades.

MrsHamlet · 01/09/2023 22:48

Because most exam results slips for most subjects have the marks as well as the grades.

Hawkins0009 · 01/09/2023 22:49

MrsHamlet · 01/09/2023 22:41

Possibly. It depends on the paper and cohort

So rather than an accurate reflection of students studying to do well and achieve a concrete score it's more of if % etc.

That's if I've understood it correctly

noblegiraffe · 01/09/2023 22:49

HOWEVER, school got in touch with her and strongly encouraged her to submit both for review. It's not free - about £40 each, but this might be because it's a private school. They do refund the cost if the grade changes...

No, this is the fee for state schools too.

The fee that parents are trying to avoid by getting the OP to check to see if the grade is likely to change and more likely that the fee will be refunded.

mrsconradfisher · 01/09/2023 22:50

FinallyMrsT · 01/09/2023 22:45

Now call me thick
How do people know If grades are 2 marks off or whatever is this simply off the script reviews by the teachers?
OP I do feel for you. I'm not sure how this can be allowed. As much as budgets don't cover it but overtime should ve offered for instances like this. It happens in the hospitals.

My step son didn't do great on his gcses. I wouldn't ask for reviews because despite his initial predictions he's not given a slight bit of effort to his exams and I do think this is the consequence. Albeit 1 he genuinely cared about and tried hard came 3 grades below what we were expecting. But he didn't revise he didn't care. We tried so hard to encourage but he avoided us because his mum said not to bother and that's the main parent here. Me and his dad are gutted but honestly we wouldn't have a clue we're to start on asking for reviews as far as we are aware no teacher approached them on results day so I suspect its as expected for him.
I would prefer more understanding.

In the case of A levels, the marks were on the grades slip. Then my DS looked up the grade boundaries for the subjects that he didn’t get his predicted grades in. Nothing to do with the review at all.

MrsHamlet · 01/09/2023 22:53

Hawkins0009 · 01/09/2023 22:49

So rather than an accurate reflection of students studying to do well and achieve a concrete score it's more of if % etc.

That's if I've understood it correctly

Show quote history

Studying to do well can mean marks at any grade. It's not specific to certain grades.

Bob worked really hard. His 3 was just as hard won as Bobette's 9.

OFQUAL specify how the grades should be distributed. Exam boards set the boundaries accordingly.

HipTightOnions · 01/09/2023 22:57

So rather than an accurate reflection of students studying to do well and achieve a concrete score

It's really not possible to achieve a "concrete score" because the exams are obviously different each year. The examiners try to make them consistent but it's only really when the marks are in that they know whether the papers have turned out to be "easier" or "harder" (and they might even be relatively easy at the top end but not in the middle or at the bottom).

Grade boundaries are then set to ensure a relatively consistent number of grades from year to year (CAGs and TAGs excepted!)

Hawkins0009 · 01/09/2023 22:59

MrsHamlet · 01/09/2023 22:53

Studying to do well can mean marks at any grade. It's not specific to certain grades.

Bob worked really hard. His 3 was just as hard won as Bobette's 9.

OFQUAL specify how the grades should be distributed. Exam boards set the boundaries accordingly.

Show quote history

So in summary a grade 9 may not be the same as grade 9 the following year if the grade boundaries are made higher or lower to achieve the 9 ?

MrsHamlet · 01/09/2023 23:01

Yes. Exactly that.

It's why you hear a lot about how it's not "fair" that someone "only got a grade whatever when last year it would have been x".

noblegiraffe · 01/09/2023 23:01

Hawkins0009 · 01/09/2023 22:59

So in summary a grade 9 may not be the same as grade 9 the following year if the grade boundaries are made higher or lower to achieve the 9 ?

Show quote history

Yes, it's comparable outcomes (i.e. grade distribution) not comparable standards.

We know that kids this year were probably not as good a standard as the 2019 cohort but they still achieved the same grade distribution because that was decided in advance (actually they achieved slightly higher grades than 2019 in the end).

Hawkins0009 · 01/09/2023 23:02

HipTightOnions · 01/09/2023 22:57

So rather than an accurate reflection of students studying to do well and achieve a concrete score

It's really not possible to achieve a "concrete score" because the exams are obviously different each year. The examiners try to make them consistent but it's only really when the marks are in that they know whether the papers have turned out to be "easier" or "harder" (and they might even be relatively easy at the top end but not in the middle or at the bottom).

Grade boundaries are then set to ensure a relatively consistent number of grades from year to year (CAGs and TAGs excepted!)

It seems then that it's more about making sure and artificially inflating or deflating the value of eg 9 depending on how many achieve or don't achieve it.
What happend to eg in theory everyone studying excellent to gain the grade 9 ?

HipTightOnions · 01/09/2023 23:03

So in summary a grade 9 may not be the same as grade 9 the following year

Grade 9 isn't an absolute thing.

It simply means you scored in the top category of everyone who took the exam that year (although grade boundaries are adjusted to try to keep the standard of that category similar from year to year).

noblegiraffe · 01/09/2023 23:03

What happend to eg in theory everyone studying excellent to gain the grade 9?

I asked Ofqual this, and they said that the exam board could appeal to Ofqual with evidence that standards had genuinely increased that year to argue for the higher proportion of children attaining the better grade.

MrsHamlet · 01/09/2023 23:03

What happend to eg in theory everyone studying excellent to gain the grade 9 ?

It's impossible.

And - as I have already said - for some students, a 3 or whatever is an excellent grade.

HipTightOnions · 01/09/2023 23:04

It seems then that it's more about making sure and artificially inflating or deflating the value of eg 9 depending on how many achieve or don't achieve it.

No, it's the other way round. They decide in advance how many they want to achieve it!

Hawkins0009 · 01/09/2023 23:05

noblegiraffe · 01/09/2023 23:01

Yes, it's comparable outcomes (i.e. grade distribution) not comparable standards.

We know that kids this year were probably not as good a standard as the 2019 cohort but they still achieved the same grade distribution because that was decided in advance (actually they achieved slightly higher grades than 2019 in the end).

Show quote history

Much appreciated, I'm slowly learning this all from my various questions

Hawkins0009 · 01/09/2023 23:08

HipTightOnions · 01/09/2023 23:04

It seems then that it's more about making sure and artificially inflating or deflating the value of eg 9 depending on how many achieve or don't achieve it.

No, it's the other way round. They decide in advance how many they want to achieve it!

So you could have 50 people on target for eg a 9 grade,but because the system cannot have the whole 50 achieve it, then in stead the grade boundaries are altered to be more difficult for that elusive 9 ?

Qilin · 01/09/2023 23:08

Checkcurtains · 01/09/2023 18:45

This is a policy ans management problem at your school, not a parent problem.

Why shouldn't they request a review if it is allowed?

It's up to the schools management team and processes to decide if they will or won't do it. And it's once a year - 25 hours isn't that much really is it?

If 25 hours isn't much - then it isn't too much to expect for the teacher time to paid for as well then surely.
Maybe make reviews a paid for service, and teachers are paid accordingly for the time it takes.

BadLad · 01/09/2023 23:09

BorrowedThyme · 01/09/2023 18:07

Exactly! It is particularly jarring to see posters on MN repeatedly referring to it as "free" when it is costing me so much sleep and family time! It is partly because of that I have set a limit, and am not prepared to take on any more now. It is all voluntary, but goodwill is being strained beyond breaking point.

Show quote history

One of the truest posts I’ve seen on her was someone commenting that mumsnetters were always so generous with other people’s time and resources.

Hawkins0009 · 01/09/2023 23:12

Much appreciated all for your time and understanding and patience with my comments and perspectives

boysmuminherts · 01/09/2023 23:15

Wow it's free? I just paid £27 to look at my son's Emglish GCSE paper as he got a 3 and I thought it would help him for the retake.

Marscleo · 01/09/2023 23:19

My parents paid for my remark at A level and I got an extra few so YABU from me. It’s just part of your job!

noblegiraffe · 01/09/2023 23:21

Marscleo · 01/09/2023 23:19

My parents paid for my remark at A level and I got an extra few so YABU from me. It’s just part of your job!

No, that was the job of the person at the exam board you paid to remark it. Which is not the OP.

noblegiraffe · 01/09/2023 23:21

boysmuminherts · 01/09/2023 23:15

Wow it's free? I just paid £27 to look at my son's Emglish GCSE paper as he got a 3 and I thought it would help him for the retake.

Who did you pay £27?

Possible that it's a printing and admin charge from the school?