To think anything I did was also his fault?

[Naomi189]

I'm about a year into recovering from my DH having an affair. We stayed together, and there's been generally good progress but we keep having the same argument and I get insanely angry when we have it and I just want to know AIBU.

After he cheated, for the first couple of months I was fairly calm. I was devastated, but I wasn't chucking his clothes out of windows or screaming and shouting.

The first 12 weeks was hell, but in a lot of ways we were closer than ever before and I felt like it would be a lot road but we'd recover from it. We'd been to counselling and attended an online infidelity course and things had been really positive.

One thing drilled into him was the need for total honesty going forwards. During that period, he met the OW for drinks to give her "closure" he felt she "deserved", after he'd expressly promised not to speak to her ever again.

To me, that was actually worse than the affair itself and I went absolutely postal, chucked him out, went on Tinder, got insanely drunk and gave a random date a blow job in the garden and texted DH to tell him.

I'm not proud of that, but he'd had an affair that went on for months and while I was in the process of giving him an opportunity to make amends (and while he'd seen me clearly devastated), he betrayed me again.

So we got through it all eventually, but now as we're trying to do the work on the affair, he keeps banhing on about how I "hurt him too" and how much what I did, damaged HIM.

To which I roll my eyes, go absolutely postal again and tell him HE is responsible for his affair and breaking our marriage and HE is responsible for betraying me again when I was devastated and therefore HE is responsible for any fallout or consequences.

He says I need to take responsibility and just because he screwed someone else 50 times while I was home cooking his dinner, that I still had "choices" and didn't need to behave in ways to deliberately hurt him.

I think I have absolutely zero responsibility for damaging our relationship and that he's lucky I didn't do worse.

Am I wrong here?

Largely we are doing well, but he just will NOT stop bringing this up during arguments which they turn very ugly because it feels like he's trying to act like I'm to blame for reacting to his shit behaviour.

@Naomi189

No judgment from me but curious as to why a blowjob? Did you do a submissive act to hurt your husband more?

It doesn’t sound like yoj will ever forgive him and move on. I’m not saying he deserves that but it’s the only way I think. Or split up.

It would have been the easiest thing in the world to have walked away, but I didn't.

I think my DH has to really think about that.

Not if you staying has resulted in constant, toxic arguments! Is you staying really the better option? It sounds like your relationship is in an awful place. And while yes, you have the moral high ground, constantly pointing it out isn't going to get you any closer. I said it up- thread, the feelings you have now means your marriage cannot be fixed. Face reality, end it now before you have a couple more shit years and it ends anyway.

You don't know anything about my children thanks, and they don't see or get involved in any kind of "shit show". They have two loving parents who take great care of them and carry out their private business privately.

You said you took a month off work to cry day and night. There’s no way your children weren’t very aware of something being incredibly wrong in their home. And then you stayed with him. Now, a year on, your pain, rage and resentment come flying off your posts - understandably - and you say the two of you keep having fights about it all.

They’ll know something awful has happened. No explanation you give them will reassure them, children always know more than they’ll let on. You’re both perpetuating this angst and drama and it’s not just affecting the two of you.

@BearPunter

You posted to say I seemed proud of sucking someone's cock.

Here's what my original post said

"To me, that was actually worse than the affair itself and I went absolutely postal, chucked him out, went on Tinder, got insanely drunk and gave a random date a blow job in the garden and texted DH to tell him. I'm not proud of that, but he'd had an affair that went on for months"

I specifically said I wasn't proud, but I don't feel guilty for it in the least.

The tone of the post you made was really needless, and saying you'd maybe have respected me more if I'd had amazing sex with an adonis implied that I don't deserve respect because of sucking a cock in the garden.

Which to me is very misogynistic.

In my view women can do whatever they want sexually in any place they want, and it certainly doesn't dictate the level of respect they deserve.

If my children are affected, which I go to great sacrifice to ensure they are not, then it is because their father repeatedly put his penis into someone else. Not because I spent four minutes with a willy in my mouth and not because of anything I did or didn't do.

They would certainly be more affected by me being divorced, and if I end up being so, that won't be my fault either - because I am not the person who took a poop on my marriage.

@Veritas90 I honestly didn't think about it. There was no intent in the act other than me feeling less pain. Which actually worked at the time.

Exactly this.

There is slut-shaming going on in this thread that I would expect from teenage incels rather than supposedly fully grown women. 🙄

Mission accomplished. Slightly intrigued why not sex though.

@Justanothercatlady He largely does all the actions I want. He largely says all the words I need to hear. He has generally been doing really well.

All I want is to be able to have conversations about it, which is necessary as we go through the healing process, where I never, ever, under any circumstances hear "but you hurt me too!!!".

I think that's completely inappropriate and it makes me really angry. It's really about him not taking full responsibility for everything he did.

@Veritas90 I honestly don't remember thinking about it. I was in complete agony and thought I couldn't cope. I considered briefly jumping in front of a car, but couldn't because of the kids. I wanted some sort of relief. It provided that. I really didn't calculate it.

All I want is to be able to have conversations about it, which is necessary as we go through the healing process, where I never, ever, under any circumstances hear "but you hurt me too!!!".

There is no world in which you get to make him self-flagellate until you decide you're healed. You don't get that amount of control, even in the wake of his own terrible acts.

For one, he has to want to.

I specifically said I wasn't proud, but I don't feel guilty for it in the least.

The tone of the post you made was really needless, and saying you'd maybe have respected me more if I'd had amazing sex with an adonis implied that I don't deserve respect because of sucking a cock in the garden.

Which to me is very misogynistic.

In my view women can do whatever they want sexually in any place they want, and it certainly doesn't dictate the level of respect they deserve.

I'm not sure I articulated what I meant well enough there - my point was along the lines of @Veritas90 who said it much better. You didn't get anything out of that act and that's what set my alarm bells ringing, respect was the wrong phrase tbf - I can only apologise for that - maybe I should have used understand?

As I say, I've been there. I think a lot on this thread have and that's why we are trying to share our experiences - but I appreciate that isn't what you want to hear.

There is nothing wrong in any consensual sexual activity at all but please don't use it as a weapon. For you, not him.

The two situations are not comparable at all. His was full out betrayal and deception, yours was a petty and gross retaliation.

His is clearly more damaging to the relationship but you have chosen to move forward and forgive this. However, I don't think you can come out completely clean handed as you somewhat lowered your position on the moral high ground, your husband will have to choose whether he can move forward from that and forgive you. Different people have different boundaries.

They are two separate events, even if one is subjectively far worse.

While you might think that you are able to justify what you did based on the significant hurt he caused you, really what you have done Is given him a reason to question your integrity and your commitment to him. The focus is no longer solely on what he did to you and the hurt and pain that his behaviour and betrayal caused you.

While I can understand why you wanted to hurt him, and your view that none of this would have happened if he hadn’t cheated in the first place, you made a choice to do what you did. That’s on you I’m afraid OP. I don’t say this to shame you, or to make you feel guilty. There is no need for you
to feel ashamed or guilty. But him cheating did not make you give this guy a BJ. What it did was cause you distress and your way of coping was to retaliate and to do something to hurt him.

Honestly? You sound like you’ve swallowed several self help books for couples dealing with betrayal and affairs, and that you are regurgitating them to try and convince yourself and others why you are staying, and to try and fix something that is broken. If you want to stay then stay. But I don’t believe for a minute that leaving would be the easiest option. Leaving would force you to face up to the reality that your relationship is over and that probably seems far scarier than staying and trying to make this work for all the wrong reasons.

I genially wish you well and hope you can make it work. 2 years is a long time to wait to just begin to feel like you are starting to heal.

@baloosbaloos

Thanks for the kind and understanding response.

However I suppose if you’re committed to healing the relationship there is an argument for SAYING “I’m sorry I hurt you too” even if you’re THINKING “fuck you I wish I’d sucked 4959274849 cocks and given you VD!!!!!

This is a good point I will think on. I just feel in principle it's important he accepts everything is a consequence of what he did, before he gets to get his wounds tended.

Being cheated on is very different to any other type of conflict. In other conflicts, I think I am the first to say "it's was my fault too", because ultimately the marriage is more important than being right.

In this case though, unless he can take FULL responsibility for it and every consequence, then I will leave the marriage anyway because it's not worth having.

Yanbu, for the bj-you we’re on a break!!! Yabu for still putting up with this shit show of a marriage. He needs to take responsibility for the affair and for the fact it was his fault you kicked him out after his ‘closure’.

i know you don’t want to hear it but your marriage is over, get out now and rebuild a new life.

Your actions hurt your dh - surely that was the point? You wanted him to understand just some of the pain he caused you but instead he deflects blame on you. Life is too short. His argument and lack of understanding of the damage HE caused to push you to behave entirely out of character would be hard for me to push through as he’s deflecting the blame to make himself feel better.

@AnneLovesGilbert

You said you took a month off work to cry day and night. There’s no way your children weren’t very aware of something being incredibly wrong in their home

I am sure they were at the time. Not really my fault though because I didn't have the affair. However, I am not doing that a year later.

And then you stayed with him

Pretty sure my children would have also been affected by getting a divorce Anne. Changing school, moving house, not living with their Dad anymore. That kind of thing would be a lot more disruptive to them.

Now, a year on, your pain, rage and resentment come flying off your posts - understandably - and you say the two of you keep having fights about it all

This happens to pretty much everyone after infidelity. We don't do it in front of the kids, they don't know what happened and in terms of watching us day to day we hold hands and laugh and make jokes and cook dinner. Our kids are doing a heck of a lot better than in most houses.

They’ll know something awful has happened. No explanation you give them will reassure them, children always know more than they’ll let on

I don't think that's true, I think they'd ask me if they thought something awful had happened, however if that is true, then there's not really anything I can do about it. Like I said, getting divorced and breaking up their home isn't actually going to help my children think nothing awful has happened.

I think you need to start considering the possibility that whatever you are asking your husband to do in order to earn your forgiveness might be something that he is unable to do.

@Jackydaytona No offence but are you swomeone who had an affair with a MM?

You blamed her for sleeping with a mm with kids

Of course I do, that's what she did. She isn't a child, she had full agency.

Your h slept with a woman knowing he was married with children

Which is the part I blame him for

He's been incredibly cruel to both of you

No, they were both incredibly cruel to me. They made choices with all the information which harmed other people. I am the only party who didn't get a say so.

Her being cruel to me is by the by, because she's not my husband, and I don't care about her in the least and nor does she owe me anything. I don't however, feel she deserved closure. She deserved the consequences of her actions, just like he did.

You know you said that you were getting on well at the beginning after discovery date? Have you heard of historical bonding? Have a look online, it completely blew my mind and explained so much.

I agree with you OP that he's trying to make himself feel better by equating what you did with what he did. Particularly after having seen the pain it has caused you. I think you asking the question 'AIBU' shows great personal insight and maturity. Many people are not listening about the responses you wanted so I feel compelled to respond to your exact question.

You DID hurt him and did it intentionally. Whatever your motivations and however justified they may have been, it doesn't change the fact that what you did caused him pain. Presumably he has apologised for what he did. Personally, I think you owe him an apology for your behaviour whilst stating (if you really feel it necessary) that it was initiated by the pain he caused.

I don't exactly think you're being unreasonable as I think your reaction is entirely human when you've been so horrendously betrayed. Nevertheless, if you genuinely want your marriage to work (which I believe you do) you do need to accept responsibility for causing that pain.

Every person who has an affair has a 'reason' for it. It doesn't make it any better or any less worthy of an apology. People who have affairs rarely want anyone to get hurt, they're usually too cowardly to face up to the actual problem. You intentionally set out to hurt him so that he could feel a fraction of what you were feeling. You know it wasn't 'right' so you need to own that.

If you can't bring yourself to do that, I fear your marriage is doomed despite your best efforts. Because, whilst he ignored your feelings to cheat and give/get 'closure', you are now ignoring his feelings. You are expecting him to make amends for when he ignored your feelings but you are holding yourself to a different standard and that will breed resentment that lasts. He can't just forget the hurt (just like you can't) because you're trying to move on.

I really feel for you as it will take a mammoth effort to apologise for something borne out of so much hurt but I genuinely feel like it's the only way to give your marriage a chance to work.

OP - have you considered that he fed this women a load of lies too? And that him meeting her was because he felt bad, knowing what he had done?

I admire you, OP. You're clearly strong, resilient and loving. I don't thing I'd have handled this anything like as well as you.

What is clear is that he is emotionally immature, and that he's pretty much destroyed the trust you once had in him. I'm honestly not sure how you get that back. He's going to have to accept that.

I also think you're still very, very angry with him - understandably - and that on some level you hate him. Fair enough, but it's painful for you to have to live with it and keep a lid on it, especially when he trots out the self-pitying 'you hurt me too' BS.

Couples therapy might take some of the heat out of this. Plus you never know, it might help him grow the fuck up.