To think anything I did was also his fault?

[Naomi189]

I'm about a year into recovering from my DH having an affair. We stayed together, and there's been generally good progress but we keep having the same argument and I get insanely angry when we have it and I just want to know AIBU.

After he cheated, for the first couple of months I was fairly calm. I was devastated, but I wasn't chucking his clothes out of windows or screaming and shouting.

The first 12 weeks was hell, but in a lot of ways we were closer than ever before and I felt like it would be a lot road but we'd recover from it. We'd been to counselling and attended an online infidelity course and things had been really positive.

One thing drilled into him was the need for total honesty going forwards. During that period, he met the OW for drinks to give her "closure" he felt she "deserved", after he'd expressly promised not to speak to her ever again.

To me, that was actually worse than the affair itself and I went absolutely postal, chucked him out, went on Tinder, got insanely drunk and gave a random date a blow job in the garden and texted DH to tell him.

I'm not proud of that, but he'd had an affair that went on for months and while I was in the process of giving him an opportunity to make amends (and while he'd seen me clearly devastated), he betrayed me again.

So we got through it all eventually, but now as we're trying to do the work on the affair, he keeps banhing on about how I "hurt him too" and how much what I did, damaged HIM.

To which I roll my eyes, go absolutely postal again and tell him HE is responsible for his affair and breaking our marriage and HE is responsible for betraying me again when I was devastated and therefore HE is responsible for any fallout or consequences.

He says I need to take responsibility and just because he screwed someone else 50 times while I was home cooking his dinner, that I still had "choices" and didn't need to behave in ways to deliberately hurt him.

I think I have absolutely zero responsibility for damaging our relationship and that he's lucky I didn't do worse.

Am I wrong here?

Largely we are doing well, but he just will NOT stop bringing this up during arguments which they turn very ugly because it feels like he's trying to act like I'm to blame for reacting to his shit behaviour.

I do understand what you’re saying and why you’re working so hard to fix it. I won’t go into it on here but I’ve read those books in a previous life. I know how you feel, even down to the meeting to give her closure, like her need for closure mattered more to him than the promises he made that he wanted to fix things.

I even agree with you that there are many things that can be wrong with people who cheat. But I still feel like he’s showing you each time you argue that he hasn’t actually changed his mindset. He’s still that selfish person who is telling you to stop talking about how he hurt you, and start thinking about how much you hurt him.

I hope it works out for you, I really do 💐

Do you have kids?

I think you're flogging a dead horse. Just leave. Why are you staying?

And how did you find out about the OW "closure" meeting? Did he tell you or did you catch him out in a lie?

The clue's in his words 'trying to even it out'.

But there's nothing to even. He cheated, you gave your conditions for staying and he broke them, so you chucked him out. What you did after that, and before you agreed 2nd chance 2, is broadly irrelevant. It certainly doesn't even start to 'even out' the months of deceit and betrayal he inflicted on you in any way.

Until he accepts that, you're dead in the water.

I would put that in writing to him: that he needs to own his own behaviour 100% and stop looking for excuses to drag you down to his level so he doesn't have to do that. If he doesn't want to do that, then you need to revisit your decision to stay armed with the fact that he doesn't and will never agree he was completely at fault. Can you live with the fact that he hasn't and isn't doing the work you agreed he would in good faith? Or is that another betrayal all over again?

Sometimes you just can't get past these things. There's too much hurt and resentment. Ultimately you may need to ask yourself whether it's worth it.

@Catusrusty Oh my gawd. I shouldn't have written on Mumsnet when I've got PMT, but oh lordy: The OW might be a person, but she is a person who was knowingly, willingly and happily shagging a MM with kids, and went out of her way to do that.

I've read all their emails and texts from the affair. He didn't lie to her or criticise me or tell her he had feelings for her. He said he was married and it had to stop because he loved his wife. Most of the messages from her were "why am I not good enough?" "what has Ms perfect got that I haven't got?" and "I love you, why don't you love me?????".

Had that not been what I read, I would have left him for certain.

She kept on going - knowing where she stood the entire time. If she was silly enough to do that then any broken heart she got is her own problem and I frankly DGAF. She was entitled to absolutely nothing from him.

At least since he did some healing work, he's able to acknowledge that he shouldn't have gone anywhere near her and he deeply, deeply regrets doing that. She was entitled to nothing, and if she wants sensible relationships where she has rights to loyalty or closure, she can find single men.

Don't be a total mug. Get rid.

I can’t see how you will ever be able to move on and be happy. Your marriage is a shitshow.

Why are you doing this to yourself? It’s like self harming.

@Nagado

even down to the meeting to give her closure, like her need for closure mattered more to him than the promises he made that he wanted to fix things

This is exactly why I was so enraged. In his cheating mindset at the time, as far as he was concerned, the OW was madly in love with him and broken hearted and a human being and she deserved some kindness too. He had compartmentalised two parts of his life and felt entitled to take that from me in order to give it to her.

I still feel like he’s showing you each time you argue that he hasn’t actually changed his mindset. He’s still that selfish person who is telling you to stop talking about how he hurt you, and start thinking about how much you hurt him

100% how I feel! This is exactly what I think the problem is

You both sound insane tbh. No idea why you're still in a relationship with each other - is it for financial reasons because I can't see a single other reason for him to be with you or you to be with him.

No I don't think what you did was as bad. It was once not 50 times.

@wineschmine I'm largely going to ignore the "why didn't you leave him?" comments because as I have said, I made the decision to stay and the last thing I need is to be shamed or questioned over it. This is a choice everyone has to make for themselves and every single person who does it carries a sense of shame for accepting something that was a dealbreaker and they are really not helped by well meaning strangers telling them that their decisions were wrong.

I am very envious of those who's spouses haven't cheated, and I wish it hadn't happened to me, but I don't regret staying. As I said, largely we are doing well. We have some stumbling blocks and I went into this fully expecting that.

When you start living through it, you realise it's a lot more complicated than a scene from a romantic comedy and what's best for you isn't always leaving. Yes, we have children. I found out about the closure meeting because he told me.

However much you want to heal, you can’t do the work of two people. He still thinks he is in the right, the only “healing” he wants to happen is you shutting up about how hurt you are and going back to how things were before. Even more outrageously, you actually cheated on him! How dare you! His feelings matter you know, not like yours. His ex’s feelings mattered too, but again yours didn’t really, which is why he went to meet her, even knowing that would hurt you further.

He is just waiting for you to get back in your box OP. There isn’t any genuine change happening here.

@ginnybag

This is actually really good advice. I think you've hit the nail on the head.

He has to accept full responsibility and stop looking for excuses to drag me down to his level so he doesn't have to do that.

No, I wouldn't live with it if he's not able to stop doing that.

I'd be more than happy to discuss and support him with any painful feelings he has over garden blowjob, but what I refuse to accept is whataboutery where he implies that I owed him anything at all.

@Naomi189 Ok, understood.

I can see how it is so much easier for people on the outside to say "leave him". I understand what you are saying.

But how did you find out about this closure meeting? Did he tell you? Or was he still lying?

As for wanting you to take some of the blame, no.

Yes, two wrongs don't make a right. But you gave a guy a blowjob to get a reaction. I can't imagine you even got any pleasure from it. He's being manipulative to try and put the blame on you for that.

Op

forgiveness is the best form of self interest

you’d have a much better life if you actually moved on and looked forward - looking back is harmful to
you and you alone - it doesn’t affect him or her

how did you find out he’d met up with her again?

lol @ the garden BJ

You need to have a think about when you are going to call it a day if he can't change.

You decided to stay and try op. There's no Shane in saying at any point, actually this isn't working.

You can't change him. If he won't change, you have your answer. But you need to work out what you are going to do.

He was responsible for having an affair.

You were responsible for sucking off some random in the garden.

You both made shitty choices and your relationship is toxic as hell. Are you some kind of masochist? This is beyond unhealthy.

So you’ve done the counselling, you’ve done the fidelity course and he’s seen you on the floor in more pain than you’ve ever been in in your life, because of what he did. And his mindset is STILL that selfish ‘but what about my pain and what you did to hurt me?’ And if he’s bringing it up in every argument then it’s obviously at the forefront of his mind.

I’m sure he’s probably sorry he had the affair; it didn’t work out the way he thought it might and it has disrupted his life, so he’s said and done what he needed to do. But how many chances are you going to give him to change that selfish mindset? Because it seems like you’re doing all the hard work and he’s just paying lip service but actually thinking something very different. And if he still has that same selfish mindset, then how can you truly believe he’s changed enough to never do it again if someone else comes along he likes more than the last one?

*He was responsible for having an affair.

You were responsible for sucking off some random in the garden.

You both made shitty choices and your relationship is toxic as hell. Are you some kind of masochist? This is beyond unhealthy.*

This!!!!!

@wineschmine He told me after he got back from the meeting, and explained it had lasted two hours and what had been said and he said he was sorry but he felt he needed to do it. That was went I went absolutely postal and with hindsight I really don't regret that at all?

Do I wish I hadn't given a guy a blowjob in the garden? No. I don't regret that at all. I think I could have given an entire football team anal on the driveway and I still wouldn't have been in the wrong. The minute her met up with OW all bets were off.

Did I enjoy it? Ha ha, no. Which is another reason it's not remotely the same.

Do you even like him? I'm scratching my head here. Yes you are very angry at him. But you don't seem to see how insurmountable the situation is. He is unrepentant. He still thinks he's justified in everything he did. The affair, and then lying again about the latest meeting with OW. He's accustomed to justifying himself and lying to you and he has no issues with it. So he's pointing the finger at you because you have an issue with it and to his mind that's the issue! If only you could see it from his POV, he is 100% in the right...

I don't know why you wouldn't have your own affair by that logic, you're not getting much in the way of human connection from him.

It does look like a form of self harm, it's like trying to get blood from a stone.

You are equally as bad as each other ! How did sucking a random stranger repair your marriage ? Look at the state that you're in and rethink your actions ! It's probably time you take some responsibility for your action!

Christ this is a car crash and a half.

Seriously, this is car crash stuff. Any relationship where ye are counting 50 shags v 1 garden BJ is toxic, or either of you trying to justify it, is an absolute mess.

Unless you both want to park it, fully forgive and fully apologise and work on your relationship, ye are going nowhere other than around in the same circles before the shag/bj tally increases at some stage.

@Nagado

And his mindset is STILL that selfish ‘but what about my pain and what you did to hurt me?’ And if he’s bringing it up in every argument then it’s obviously at the forefront of his mind

This is exactly what winds me up, although I understand it can take a long time for cheaters to really get it.

Do I worry about him cheating again? Not really. If he does in future then he does. I could leave, marry someone else and they might cheat. 1 in 5 husbands in a survey have said they have been unfaithful.

I can think of, off the top of my head 4 marriages close to me where people have cheated.

1 went on to live happily forever, he never cheated again and when she died 30 years later he sat in an armchair crying for her every day for two years until he died too.

1 stayed together and was fairly dysfunctional but was dysfunctional to begin with

1 went on to the ugliest divorce in history which led to mental breakdowns and kids being put into care and all sorts of awfulness

1 split immediately and are both happily married to other people and are actually friendly with one another now (I think the marriage was over before the cheating

I don't think there are any guarantees in life, but we love each other. A lot of his messages to OW were about how much he loved me weirdly. He has his own problems, but he also has a lot of wonderful qualities and we are generally happy in spite of it all.

I think the affair made our marriage stronger. I think it brought up a lot of issues in him (childhood abuse and so on) which had made him hold back from the intimacy of the marriage and that's much better now.

I am very sad I didn't get the fairytale, but I didn't. I have to make my own now.