Do you support the ULEZ expansion?

[icecream99]

Just curious as it is due to start at midnight tonight and could potentially cause a lot of chaos. I don't support it.

YANBU - I DON'T support ULEZ expansion

YABU - I DO support ULEZ expansion

I live in the Central London Ulez area introduced in 2019. Anyone here has to have compliant cars or very deep pockets for the £12.50 a day charge for moving your car.

That's not the issue.

People on local Facebook groups whinge about the local (Tory) council rules and nothing to do with Sadiq Khan about being literally asked to drive around the houses so the rest of us can cross safely to the shops and the station.

I agree with all the rules but people don't half mix it up.

I understand your desire to drive on a road that makes your journey to your destination more convenient for you. But why do you fail to understand your convenience might inconvenience others and they can take measures to ameliorate your nuisance?

You can drive through the trunk roads in my borough but not in the residential roads. That's reasonable because you can get where you want to go by car, it just takes a bit longer and you will have to pay the Congestion Charge and the Ulez if you have a non-compliant vehicle and any parking charges. Or you could get public transport. It's up to you.

The trunk roads will probably have residential property on them.

I pointed that out on a previous post. But it's you that wants to drive on them, not me.

And if they don’t, you’ll pitch a tent just to make a point.

Not necessarily. If car use becomes less convenient people will adapt, stop jumping in the car for small journeys where they don’t really need a car etc. Think a bit harder.

Cars aren’t really needed in much of London. Ours is 10 years old. It’s done 50k miles. My PILs (rural, no shop in the village) did that in 2 years.

Of course not. Did I say that?

I've explained what I mean multiple times now - I'm referring to ALL of the extras drivers pay, only to be further penalised at every opportunity.

Answer me this. Hypothetically speaking, if everyone stopped driving into Greater/Inner London from tomorrow full stop for weeks on end, would Sadiq Khan consider this a victory?

I'm currently parked up on a residential road and I don't live on it....arrrggghhhh a non local in a car on a road with houses on it.

YABU

ALL of the extras drivers pay? Because every other method of transport is free isn't it? Trains, buses, trams, cycling...all free..oh no, wait...

If they mean London, about 24% of Londoners actually voted for khan. Of those I bet not all support ulez

Ahh... the classic strawman argument. 🙄

To own a vehicle AND make sure it's legally road worthy, drivers must pay: Road tax, insurance, MOT (which could also mean new tyres), fuel, parking charges, plus various tolls like ULEZ, all of which costs hundreds, if not thousands, a year.

Yes, there are costs to those other modes of transport. Obviously. But they are nowhere near what drivers are required to pay. I'm sure you'll find another way to argue that point, though.

You did, however, neglect to answer my question, which was, if everyone ditched their cars tomorrow, would Sadiq Khan consider this a victory?

That's fine if there are no restrictions. There are in my road. I don't understand why you don't understand that. If you have to pay then just do it or just don't park up there. What is hard to get about that? I'd get it if there were restrictions in your road and would comply.

To own a vehicle AND make sure it's legally road worthy, drivers must pay: Road tax, insurance, MOT (which could also mean new tyres), fuel, parking charges, plus various tolls like ULEZ, all of which costs hundreds, if not thousands, a year.

No one is required to own a car. So all of those costs result from the choice to own and use a car.

Even if someone chooses to own a car they aren’t required to pay tolls unless they want to use the relevant bridge / M6 or drive the car into central London (congestion charge) or drive it into the ULEZ (vast majority of cars are exempt).

If they replace it every three years no MOT.

Buy an electric car no VED

The only unavoidable cost is insurance.

Don’t want to pay, don’t own a car

I know @snowgirl1 It's like it's free to travel on public transport in London unless you are a child or over 60. I pay to travel on public transport because I weigh up the costs and time and think it's the best option for me. If it's not the best option for you @Jumpingthruhoops then do what you want to do. All I ask is that you pay your fair share. Why shouldn't you? I do.

The other point is the air quality is dubious on the underground

@Ireallylikepictures I voted for Sadiq Khan twice and fully support Ulez and the other things he has done for public transport. I will vote for him next time. But if you don't want to and are eligible to vote and your candidate wins I will abide by that.

I really hate to say this @greengreengrass25 but can you give me the relevant stats for air quality on the Underground? As a regular user I'd like to know. And would you cross-reference them to stats for air quality produced by cars and breathed by people living and driving around Central London, major arteries through the Capital and also the M25? A car is not a sealed unit and the driver will be breathing the polluted air around them as well as pumping it out. So even if you live in the leafy suburbs or rural bits of Essex you will still breathe it, won't you? Unless you give me it in an easily digestible form I'm not going to take it seriously.

I'd be quite happy if fewer locals used roads too to be honest, fewer cars cluttering up the street that way. The parking wars where I live are unreal, eggs got thrown last time. But yes, I dislike the use of cars for through traffic more than I dislike the motorists who actually have business on that street. It's bad enough shitting on your own doorstep without shitting on other people's too.

Fewer cars is the theme, do you see?

I realise that this is impractical, so I'll settle for most of them.

I fully support it. I live outside greater London. I rarely drive into the city but have have an older car that is compliant. I usually use public transport.
Why wouldn't we want to protect people?
Hopefully, it will be brought out country wide

It's certainly bad on the Underground. It's a confined space, after all so any dust created by wheel flange wear or by the contact shoe just accumulates.

Still, at least you're not living in it, you wouldn't spend anything like the time on the Underground as you would at home or at school.

I pay MORE than my 'fair share'. My point is, others don't. While at the same time being very vocal about expecting drivers to pay even more.

Don't agree that other transport costs "nowhere near" what drivers have to pay. My car costs me about the same to run each year (taking fuel, insurance, MOT, maintenance, Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) - because there's no such thing as 'road tax' - and depreciation into account) as it costs me to commute into work by public transport 3 days per week.

Me pointing out that other methods of transport have a cost clearly isn't a strawman argument, when you're complaining that car drivers are the only ones always being penalised 😪

I didn't answer you question about Sadiq Khan, because that is a strawman argument - it's totally irrelevant to the point I raised, which was your offensive (and possibly incorrect, because you no idea how much tax the PP pays) view that PP's view was "redundant" because they didn't contribute as much to the roads as you. I haven't commented either way on ULEZ on this thread - just responded to your high-handed attitude towards other road users and attitude that car drivers somehow have more right to an opinion about road policy - so, no, I'm not interested in answering your question.