To think my friend was not BU in this cafe situation?

[TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress]

My friend runs a small independent cafe that is dog friendly but the dogs have to be outdoors. Over the weekend, a family of six people came in with 2 dogs and were directed outside. The tables outside are picnic benches that seat 10, inside the tables seat six (they’re all the same size). The family went outside and took 2 picnic benches. Which annoyed my friend as that’s depriving potential customers of a bench but she let it go and said nothing.

She noticed one of the children, a boy aged about 8, having a tantrum outside because he doesn’t like eating outdoors and wants to eat indoors. Next thing she knew, his mum had brought him inside and sat him at the last available table (with an iPad blasting). She asked my friend if his order could come to that table as he doesn’t like eating outside so she said he could come in and eat alone.

My friend said she couldn’t allow this, because they don’t allow children to eat and drink unsupervised for health and safety reasons (they’d also ordered the child a hot drink). The outside area is down a large set of steps so they couldn’t have seen him from the garden. The mum said he has ADHD and doesn’t like to eat outside. My friend - who also has a DS with ADHD BTW - said sorry no we can’t take the risk of him eating alone. What she didn’t say but wanted to was ‘You’d also be taking up three tables when you should only be taking up one and I shouldn’t have to turn customers away because of this’.

Anyway she dug her heels in and the mum gave in and went back outside, the 8yo had a (small) tantrum outside and played his iPad full blast for the duration of their meal (he was asked by another waitress to turn it down which he did a fraction).

When the family paid the mum said she would be posting reviews online to say that the cafe owner is ableist and wouldn’t accommodate the needs of a disabled child. My friend said nothing, and nothing has appeared as of yet online, but she’s gutted about this accusation especially with her DS having ADHD. She said she’d never let her ADHD DS eat alone because actually the risk of him being hurt would increase greatly.

AIBU to think it’s not about ableism but about health and safety? I feel really bad for her!

of course another adult could have sat with the child

For the 13th time

She doesn’t advertise it as a dog friendly. What made you think she did?

She does have dog bowls and treats

I’d be really curious to hear opinions on if ‘well behaved dogs are welcome’ means a place is dog friendly? Surely it discriminates against badly behaved dogs and therefore isn’t dog friendly and that quite a lot of dogs aren’t welcome.

But it was never about "bowing to customers demands", it's about making your customer feel heard and understood, even if you ultimately can't do anything to help them.

I've said from the beginning that she was right not to let the child sit alone.

You also seem to be very certain about how your friend came across even though you weren't there

This is Mumsnet, where it's considered perfectly normal behaviour to hide behind the door and pretend to be out if a stranger rings your doorbell. Of course people aren't going to want to share a table with one!

So the customer has to feel heard and understood? Even if the ONLY response that makes them feel heard and understood is one that contravenes rules and safety of children? Such as in this case?

Again - ridiculous, pandering nonsense.

I think I might to go into a cafe and demand free sandwiches. And if I don’t get them I’m going to declare that this place delivers bad customer services because I’m not feeling heard and understand 😂

And I know my friend and how she told me the story - I didn’t really fancy transcribing the whole thing in my OP, but no part of it did it seem like she came across as rude (and I believe what she told me), or delivering bad customer service. Just trying to pander to an entitled customer.

On that note - it shows how we rally treat service staff as second class citizens if we believe we can demand anything and their priority isn’t to state the rules, or spell out the reason for their decisions, but just jot to hurt the unreasonable person’s feelings 🙄

So the customer has to feel heard and understood? Even if the ONLY response that makes them feel heard and understood is one that contravenes rules and safety of children? Such as in this case?

Well, yes. I think most people like to feel understood and heard when they're struggling or have a problem

Again - ridiculous, pandering nonsense.

lol, it really isn't.

I think I might to go into a cafe and demand free sandwiches. And if I don’t get them I’m going to declare that this place delivers bad customer services because I’m not feeling heard and understand 😂

You're just making yourself look silly by saying this. It's not even remotely comparable to the situation in your OP.

And I know my friend and how she told me the story - I didn’t really fancy transcribing the whole thing in my OP, but no part of it did it seem like she came across as rude (and I believe what she told me), or delivering bad customer service. Just trying to pander to an entitled customer.

But the customer wasn't entitled - she was just in a stressful situation and trying to solve the problem with as little fuss as possible. Her solution was to sit her child inside, your friend wasn't happy and the solution was a pissed off customer who felt unheard and so annoyed they wanted to go to social media. Hardly an ideal outcome for anyone, so IMO it would be worth looking to see what could be done differently. It's not pandering to want happy customers

On that note - it shows how we rally treat service staff as second class citizens if we believe we can demand anything and their priority isn’t to state the rules, or spell out the reason for their decisions, but just jot to hurt the unreasonable person’s feelings 🙄

Who exactly is being treated as second-class citizen here? You asked for people's opinions but seem determined to argue with anyone who says your friend may be in the wrong

But the customer wasn't entitled - she was just in a stressful situation and trying to solve the problem with as little fuss as possible. Her solution was to sit her child inside, your friend wasn't happy and the solution was a pissed off customer who felt unheard and so annoyed they wanted to go to social media.

a customer who didn't want to supervise her own child.

@TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress I have only skimmed the thread but even I can see she has said , from what you've said . dogs welcome outside - not Dog friendly ( which to me would imply they are allowed inside - a different thing)

I hope you have the energy & the time to reiterate this - Not sure I would 😁🐾

https://makeameme.org/meme/one-does-not-5c1595

Ha ha

I have sympathy with your friend to try to keep tables free for other customers. But I suppose a thing she has to deal with. I do think she was right to ask one of the parents to supervise the young child.

Oh & Am I right that she does not advertise the cafe as Dog Friendly - she has some tables outside where dogs can sit . Not sure after 13 reiterations I have completely understood 😊😉All best OP

I think people sometimes use the term ableism to get what they want if people don’t accommodate their every need. It’s getting a bit silly now. Your friend was not being unreasonable for not wanting an unsupervised child in her cafe, SEN is irrelevant in this case.

Well, yes. I think most people like to feel understood and heard when they're struggling or have a problem

Om not an entitled fucker so I don’t expect to drag other people into my problems - however so people do and I think they just can’t be pleased

But the customer wasn't entitled - she was just in a stressful situation and trying to solve the problem with as little fuss as possible.

At the expense of other customers, my friend and the safety of her child. That’s what makes her entitled.

Her solution was to sit her child inside, your friend wasn't happy and the solution

For perfectly valid reasons - the customer is not always right.

It's not pandering to want happy customers

It would be pandering to bend H&S rules for parents who kick up enough of a fuss

Who exactly is being treated as second-class citizen here?

Service staff. Like I said. You think my friend’s priority should have been to appease an unappeasable (unless they breached her safety rules) customer over the safety of a child and the consideration of other customers. You think the mum was reasonable and by virtue of being a paying customer could kick off about whatever she liked no matter how ridiculous.

I've said multiple times I don't think the 8yo should have been allowed to sit alone, but I think the owner was pissed off because these customers took over too many tables and she was then even more pissed when they wanted to sit at yet another one.

What are you talking about?

I don't think your friend should have bent the rules, nor I don't think the mum was right. I just think the mum was in a difficult situation and could have benefited from a bit of sympathy and kindness, that's all.

It's got nothing to do with pandering, second class citizens or the customer always being right.

she wasn't trying to solve it with as little fuss as possible, she was trying to get exactly what she wanted. Solving it with as little fuss as possible would have been to asks once and then sit with the child when the owner said it wasn't possible. It doesn't suddenly become more possible if you say the child has ADHD (which in my experience makes them less suitable to be unsupervised!).

There were 6 people. Unless it was 5 children and one adult there was enough supervision to have sat inside and out and made no fuss at all.

Yes she was. For good reasons - she’s rubbing a small business! I’ve stated that. But the reason he couldn’t sit alone was because they dont allow children to eat unsupervised for safety reason. Even if she wasn’t annoyed about the table issue, this is still the reason he couldn’t sit alone.

The mum put herself in the situation, though, by choosing a cafe where they couldn’t all sit inside.

Agreed

What makes you think my friend was unkind and unsympathetic?

I haven’t worked in customer services since I was a student decades ago but I certainly didn’t have time to fuss annd make lemon face over the sensibilities of unreasonable customers.

It's got nothing to do with pandering, second class citizens or the customer always being right.

But it has! You think that no matter how unreasonable the customer, service staff should put of a (fake) show of sorrow even if the situation is ridiculous and unsafe.

Again - I’d hate to be treated like I was stupid but I guess some people are ultra sensitive

Being friendly to people who dont like smell of wet dogs does not mean dog friendly

But it has! You think that no matter how unreasonable the customer, service staff should put of a (fake) show of sorrow even if the situation is ridiculous and unsafe.

I don't think that at all

I just think being sympathetic to a customers' problems can go a long way in making them feel better.

I agree that would have been easier, but maybe there wasn't anywhere with space for six people plus two dogs.

I agree with this. I know it would have likely spoiled the grown up’s dynamic to have one come inside but that’s the price you have to pay sometimes being a parent with a child who has specific needs/wants/demands.

Well then you DO think that.

I couldn’t naturally feel sympathy for this situation. Nor could many people. Therefore I’d have to fake sympathy. I’d be faking sympathy to pander to an unreasonable customer. You think that’s an essential part of customer service. That if a customer has an unreasonable and unsafe demand/request that the primary response should be sympathy, even if fake.

I said in my OP all tables inside are the same size and seat six people.

Dogs weren’t allowed inside, as I also said in my OP, but someone could’ve stayed outside with the dogs.

It would have actually been a perfect solution (albeit one that would have pissed my friend off with 3 tables being taken up) but for reasons unknown, the ONLY solution the mum wanted was for her DS to sit indoors on his own while the rest of them sat outside away from him. Even when it was spelled out to her why it was unsafe, she wasn’t happy.

Yes it does matter. Because dog friendly is misleading here. It would be better to put a sign dogs allowed in ourside seating area.

Also, your friend needs to be seething a little less and be politly upfront what she allows in her cafe. If she doesn't like people in a group sitting on different tables, she should politely inform that the tables are for larger groups not for 3 people.