Karen advert

[IncognitoMam]

This shouldn't be allowed surely? Who comes up with this shit?
I'm not called Karen but I know Karen's that hate their name now because of the way it's used.

Why? You may have a problem with learning about the origin of the term "Karen", but I do not. Speak for yourself, and not "us". Thank you.

I hear you @DeeCee77 .

DeeCee we know the historical US context. We also know that we're not there now and that the UK has a very different history. This doesn't diminish the suffering of many black Americans.

What we are saying, which you don't seem to be listening to, is that none of the current usage, the jokes, the memes, the TikTok videos, reflects the historical meaning. They don't show black suffering, they simply demean and mock uppity women. It is misogynistic and ageist.

Acknowledging that does not excuse the historical American women you cite. Please don't use those historical examples to excuse current hatred of women.

The issue is the appropriation and generalization of the term from its original meaning to being generally misogynistic. This both silences the American black community who originated it AND now silences women in general. The problem is the (mostly) white (mostly) men who have co-opted it transforming it from a way to name oppression to a tool of oppression.

My name is Karen but that's the least of my issues with this sexist shite. I like my name and I couldn't give a toss if an IT guy in Croydon thinks it's hilarious to use a dated meme to have a go.

What does bother me is the proud, open sexism and ageism it represents. It's not new, it's just a new way of packaging old shite.

Karen doesn't mean Karen. It means Karen, Debbie, Sandra, Samantha, Claire, Fiona and Alison. All of us who grew up in the seventies and eighties and are finally no longer bothered about looking 'nice' when people piss us off.

And that's how it's used in America too. Check out tiktok 'Karens go wild' in which middle aged women pretend to have entitled meltdowns on planes, in car parks, at checkouts etc to create content for a voracious audience who have run out of actual Karen tantrums.

Who is in prison for violence? Men of course. Who creates actually intimidating atmospheres in our pubs, streets, car parks and on planes? Men, who else.

But if we pretend it's Karen to blame we can have fun without the risk of actually getting punched.

What's ironic is although the term Karen refers to a racist white american woman weaponising her white privilege, thus nothing to do with those who are not, your friends are displaying some of the Karen tropes (ie. self absorbed, complaining)...

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2020/05/coronavirus-karen-mem

"The term was popularized on Black Twitter as a meme used to describe white women who "tattle on Black kids' lemonade stands.

Their defining essence is “entitlement, selfishness, a desire to complain,” according to Heather Suzanne Woods, a meme researcher and professor at Kansas State University. A Karen “demands the world exist according to her standards with little regard for others, and she is willing to risk or demean others to achieve her ends.”

It's not learning about it we have a problem with, it's the continual thrusting the information down our throats and the fact that the poster is derailing the thread for their own agenda. We've been told the origin of the word numerous times, it has nothing to do with the OP's post.

Exactly.

We all know the origins of the word.

We all know how it’s since evolved.

But it seems that some are very invested in ensuring that a term exists to abuse and shut up middle-aged women with.

Is there an equivalent name for blokes?

Are they a "Harvey" when they sexually abuse and rape?
Are they a "Brian" when they sit in their bedrooms with closed curtains, playing xbox all day?
Are they a "Dave" when they drink too much and start throwing punches?

I've never noticed an equivalent for males.

More on the Karen, the racist white american woman.

In African-American culture, there is a history of calling difficult white women or those who "weaponize" their position by a generic pejorative name. In the antebellum era (1815–1861), "Miss Ann" was used.

University of Virginia media researcher Meredith Clark has said that the idea of a white woman in the vicinity of whom black people feel a need to be careful because she would not hesitate to use her "privilege" at the expense of others "has always been there; it just hasn't always been so specific to one person's name".

Certainly DeeCee seems to want to shut women up.

"Why? You may have a problem with learning about the origin of the term "Karen", but I do not. Speak for yourself, and not "us". Thank you.
hear you @DeeCee77 ."

🙄 I don't object to somebody mentioning the original source of the term, just in case there's someone who isn't aware, but clearly the OP is talking about the evolved/misappropriated misogynistic use of the term applied to women, of all skin colour, of a certain age.

Deecee has been repeatedly posting the source meaning, in reply to anything and is ignoring the discussion in the context of misogyny as posted by the OP.
It's derailing the thread.

Misogyny is not ok, or ageism. Hopefully you can hear and understand that too.

In total agreement.

Oh, and is there an equivalent for males in the ORIGINAL meaning of the term?

The racist, entitled, middle aged white man?

Edited to add "white" for accuracy.

"Tell your poor, unfortunate friends (sarcasm) to stop misappropriating a term"

@DeeCee77 if a woman's name is Karen then that's literally a label applied to her. And people/businesses are effectively being allowed to bully innocent women on account of their literal name.

And you know full well that Britain and America are culturally very different and the historical use in the USA has nothing to do with the way it is currently used in Britain, to silence middle aged women who have to cheek to hold opinions!

I can’t think of any male name that is routinely used to stereotype and insult men.

We don’t need you to cut and paste like a demented bot.

We KNOW the origins of the term.

We also know that this is most definitely NOT how the term is currently used.

Why can’t you engage with what posters are saying about what the term has changed into? Or do you simply find it useful that society has a term of abuse for middle-aged women irrespective of racism?

Me neither.

If it doesn't exist, it kinda proves the point about misogyny in its current usage, doesn't it?

That, @MorrisZapp is one of the best posts I've read on here since Reality's post about what abuse in a relationship looks like.

❤️

More on the Karen, the racist white american woman.

Racism is not ok, and we're all in condemnation of that, but that's not the context the term has been used in this case or in the OP. You've been told that several times now Deecee, but you're spamming with quotes connected to a different use of the term, used to insult women if all skin colour, so I can only assume you're trying to shut down people here.

I'm reporting @DeeCee77 for derailing the thread.

@DeeCee77 you seem to be saying that anyone who gets called a Karen must be in fact behaving in an entitled, unreasonable and privileged way. Are you not able to imagine that the experience that so many of us have that might ALSO be true? That we are in fact told we should not ask for good service or appropriate resolution to a problem - that to do so makes us "entitled" no matter how crap the service is that we have received?

I've already reported.

I don't think the OPs friends are misappropriating the name Karen? Their parents named them Karen. With all the history, would you like that name?

You are so very kind! Not my first rodeo with this nonsense as you know.

@DeeCee77

I think you're probably best placed to answer these, please.