Page 27 | Karen advert

IncognitoMam · 2023-08-26T06:29:14+00:00

This shouldn't be allowed surely? Who comes up with this shit? I'm not called Karen but I know Karen's that hate their name now because of the way it's used.

Specsaversnotneeded · 27/08/2023 02:03

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/08/2023 02:19

Can I have a special word to describe the (hypothetical) misogyny of black men, Asian men? If not, why?

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 27/08/2023 04:23

YABU. The misappropriation of Karen is weaponised white tears coming back to bite some of you in the backside. IMO memes/ads like this and much of the misappropriated use of the term Karen, is just peak cultural appropriation. I make no apologies for saying that I am watching the hysteria about Karen being a misogynistic term with a wry smile because if you are more worried about the term than the behaviour that gave rise to its existence, its likely white supremacy is stunting your growth. Females supremacists just love to making themselves out to be the victim even whilst they are crying toxic tears and operating as the perpetrator.

IMO, its ridiculous that Black and Brown women are having to defend their right to a pejorative term because it is being used out of its original context, here, in what appears to be a meme/advert relating to an overwhelmingly white firm, or elsewhere. A firm based in a country which was invaded by white people who went on to steal from and commit atrocities against the native peoples that any slave master from the Caribbean would be proud of and which continues to have a well documented problem with racism and sexism. Anyone who wants to come at me with whether that country is better or worse on these issues than the UK or USA, do not waste your breath. This appropriation has nothing to do with Black and Brown women or the origination of a term used to describe the appalling behaviour of some White women.

As many others have articulated on this this thread, and others, Karen is one of the latest iterations of a term used by the Back and Brown community to describe a woman using their whiteness to get their own way to the detriment of and/or threaten the lives and liberties of black and brown people, young and old. We don't owe weaponised whiteness 'nice' and we certainly don't owe that vocal clique of oppressive White women and White Feminists a term that makes them feel warm and fuzzy or that they are are comfortable with.

“When broader society refuses to validate women of color, it becomes vital for us to share our experiences with each other as a means of coping with these damaging stereotypes and archetypes, and to help us recognize the gaslighting techniques and stereotypes that keep us in a subordinate position.”
― Ruby Hamad, White Tears/Brown Scars: How White Feminism Betrays Women of Color

These threads are always full of women who act deny, twist, distort or just act obtuse when Black and Brown women speak their truth. These vocal white women can apparently be trusted to recognise sexism and misogyny but Black and Brown women and their allies apparently cannot be trusted with this, in fact we are constantly told that we need to bring receipts for white privilege, racism and prejudice. To add insult to injury no opportunity is missed to try to tenuously link and convert discussions on racism and issues that affect Black and Brown women into discussions on misogyny and trans women. Just as not all heroes wear capes, not racist oppressors / would be oppressors have penises.

Hats off to all of you on this thread that are fighting the good fight. 👏

CloudyMcCloudy · 27/08/2023 06:35

MorrisZapp · 27/08/2023 00:12

Nobody has said it's the one usage. But it certainly is the majority usage, and it's sexist so we call it out.

Why is calling out the sexist usage problematic? As referenced and linked multiple times in this thread?

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Any takers on this one. Seems a good question

ChillysWaterBottle · 27/08/2023 06:35

OnTheWayThere · 26/08/2023 22:18

Ah well if white people (I assume) take over a word and tell you it's moved on to a usage they've assigned to it, I suppose that's it then. It's only right that you conform and forget what you knew before they took over. It can only ever be used in the way they've decided from then on.

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White people didn't take over the term 'Karen'. It was a term created and popularised by white men and has meant an insult to white women for over a decade now. The alternative usage - as a racist white American woman - was a later appropriation of the term by Black Twitter pseudo activists. The posters repeatedly claiming otherwise are knowingly spreading false information.

TheaBrandt · 27/08/2023 06:47

“Fighting the good fight” to defend a term
used to insult older women of ALL races? Think we have blundered into Alice in Wonderland territory here.

Baldieheid · 27/08/2023 07:23

In the context of it being a term used to describe the behaviour of a white woman being abusive towards a non-White individual....

Is there a similar term or name to describe the behaviour of a white man doing the same thing?

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 27/08/2023 07:53

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting

I make no apologies for saying that I am watching the hysteria about Karen being a misogynistic term with a wry smile because if you are more worried about the term than the behaviour that gave rise to its existence, its likely white supremacy is stunting your growth.

Are you sure hysteria is a word you want to use in the context of this discussion?

Disappeared · 27/08/2023 08:04

kazz77 · 26/08/2023 14:43

Imagine that your name is actually Karen

You already struggle with anxiety and depression so speaking to people especially in public was already difficult… Now you actively avoid anywhere or anything where you may have to give your name (Starbucks for example - yes you can give a false name but when ordering itself is such an ordeal that just adds a layer that’s too much for you so you just avoid) you don’t complain even when justified in fear on being Karen by name and nature

It is widely enough known/used/and in the real world enough that people do make comments when you say your name, mostly sympathetic, poor you, oh that’s an unfortunate name, if only your parents had known the future etc, sometimes things like oh a real life Karen, are you really like that.

You see it everywhere online , people talking about it, adverts such as this and you get into a spiral of feeling worse and worse

But that’s apparently okay because as many people will tell you, they don’t mean you, they don’t mean people actually called Karen, you’re missing the point, you’re stupid to be upset about it.

Sure many real Karen’s will laugh it off, some of those won’t care at all, some of them will laugh just because they feel they should even though it hurts inside but I won’t be the only one for whom it has a real negative, hurtful effect on a near daily basis

Change your name is a solution often offered, often with an ‘at least you can do that, people can’t change their skin colour’ but again for many people it’s still not an easy thing to just do and has a feeling of losing your identity

regardless of its background, how it came about, why it’s used, whether it’s use has changed, or if it’s used to shut down women people rarely care that there are actual, nice, individual people who are having their lives made even more miserable by it and who because of their own imperfections can’t just brush it off or ignore It

this I’m already at the invisible age this on top I just want to disappear

KimberleyClark · 27/08/2023 08:07

Baldieheid · 27/08/2023 07:23

In the context of it being a term used to describe the behaviour of a white woman being abusive towards a non-White individual....

Is there a similar term or name to describe the behaviour of a white man doing the same thing?

Edited

John, apparently. I’ve never heard of men being called Johns in this context nor has anyone claiming John is the equivalent of Karen provided any examples of memes etc.

MorrisZapp · 27/08/2023 08:33

TheaBrandt · 27/08/2023 06:47

“Fighting the good fight” to defend a term
used to insult older women of ALL races? Think we have blundered into Alice in Wonderland territory here.

This thread is insane. As is waiting for an explanation of why objecting to sexism is racist. Can't imagine it'll remain up much longer.

AlisonDonut · 27/08/2023 08:41

MorrisZapp · 27/08/2023 08:33

This thread is insane. As is waiting for an explanation of why objecting to sexism is racist. Can't imagine it'll remain up much longer.

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White women objecting to sexism is racist because everything white women do, and everything white women say [and indeed think] is racist.

And when white women ask for evidence of this, that is in itself racist.

White women just need to shut up about everything, because whatever white women do, say or think is never bad enough to be worthy of whingeing about, and if you do, it automatically makes you a 'Karen'.

I think that's the nuts and bolts summed up.

MorrisZapp · 27/08/2023 08:42

Not wanting to be dismissed and ridiculed because of my age and sex is evidence of 'toxic tears', well it's been a blast ladies. See you on the other side.

ThePoshUns · 27/08/2023 08:49

GCAcademic · 26/08/2023 17:02

Not surprising to see that two of the most aggressive, derailing posters on here have stated that they’re not Black. I see these white activist-saviour bullies at my work, whitesplaining racism to People of Colour, even accusing those of us who aren’t white of racism if we don’t kowtow to their reductive American-derived ideas that make little sense in the UK context. As far as I can see, it’s a way of entrenching white, middle class privilege, and all-too-happily at the expense of / by exploiting those who aren’t white. I’m afraid I’ve seen enough of this now, that when I hear the term “ally”, I know exactly what’s coming.

Well said.

DewinDwl · 27/08/2023 08:55

AlisonDonut · 27/08/2023 08:41

White women objecting to sexism is racist because everything white women do, and everything white women say [and indeed think] is racist.

And when white women ask for evidence of this, that is in itself racist.

White women just need to shut up about everything, because whatever white women do, say or think is never bad enough to be worthy of whingeing about, and if you do, it automatically makes you a 'Karen'.

I think that's the nuts and bolts summed up.

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Don't forget that white women are to blame for anything white men do. DeeCee mansplained it upthread... lynching is done by white men but the blame must be laid at the feet of the white women who urged them on. So let's ignore who does the killing and violence and join the witchunt.

What rule number of misogyny is that? We have had quite a few examples on this thread.

Women-hating posters are so obvious.

IrresponsiblyCertainAboutSexualDimorphism · 27/08/2023 08:58

DojaPhat · 27/08/2023 00:31

Also, I think using 'Karen' as shorthand for racist white woman does an enormous disservice to the specific forms of racism white women wield against Black women. 'Karen' makes these incidents seem trivial or inconsequential when they are incredibly damaging, as is the knowledge that to all intents and purposes the white women will still be painted as the victim or given the benefit of the doubt regardless. A few tears later and you'll soon need to explain and apologise to said ww for making her feel 'terrible'. It's such a damaging experience particularly in the workplace (Remote-first policy is so amazingly phenomenal I don't know what to compare it to so amazing it is). But anyway, I much prefer when people say today X/ a white woman said/did XYZ.

This is exactly my objection to the use of the term Karen. I have no objection (and even if I did it would hardly be valid) to anyone calling out insidious racism in the strongest terms.

Using a caricature/stereotype with a female name is problematic because it’s a euphemism and, as we have seen, the term quickly got hijacked and had its meaning changed. And not by the women against whom it is current being used in the U.K.

It’s obvious that in the advert Karen is being used as a synonym for “annoying patient” not “horrible racist we should refuse to see”. And that’s what the thread was originally about.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 27/08/2023 09:02

Women-hating posters are so obvious.

They are and the influence appears to be American, at least judging from the abundance of z in the spelling.

Why though? What makes a woman despise other women so much?

Anyway, I don’t want to derail this wreck of a thread even further. It’s just something I’ve been wondering, naively, perhaps.

LizzieSiddal · 27/08/2023 09:14

@MorrisZapp This thread is insane. As is waiting for an explanation of why objecting to sexism is racist. Can't imagine it'll remain up much longer.

It is indeed totally bat shit.

SomeCatFromJapan · 27/08/2023 09:32

Is it just me that's noticed that some of the worst derailment seems to operate from a different time zone?

LizzieSiddal · 27/08/2023 09:40

@SomeCatFromJapan yes, plus they are definitely not all women.

It’s men telling women to shut the fuck up. As if we haven’t heard it all before.

LadyKenya · 27/08/2023 09:46

Well said@Socrateswasrightaboutvoting . Unfortunately your excellent post will just go over the heads of many on here.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 27/08/2023 09:47

LadyKenya · 27/08/2023 09:46

Well said@Socrateswasrightaboutvoting . Unfortunately your excellent post will just go over the heads of many on here.

Do you agree with their use of hysteria in the context of the thread?

LadyKenya · 27/08/2023 09:52

That would not be the first thing that I would take from that post@ChardonnaysBeastlyCat . She has made some excellent points, what about those?

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 27/08/2023 09:56

LadyKenya · 27/08/2023 09:52

That would not be the first thing that I would take from that post@ChardonnaysBeastlyCat . She has made some excellent points, what about those?

What about my question? Not happy to answer that? Wonder why!

Hysteria is an expression used to diminish and shut up women.

It negates any argument that follows.

LizzieSiddal · 27/08/2023 09:57

@LadyKenya many of the points @Socrateswasrightaboutvoting makes, have already been referenced, understood and agreed with, on this thread, some numerous times.