Karen advert

[IncognitoMam]

This shouldn't be allowed surely? Who comes up with this shit?
I'm not called Karen but I know Karen's that hate their name now because of the way it's used.

But it’s not just used in this way

it’s used to name particular racist attitudes

"Karen" is the battle cry of the professionally offended in the 2020s.🙄

Ironically those most offended by it are often found bemoaning the lack of resilience in the younger generation and minimising racism on Mnet.

*TheaBrandt
I genuinely think we are at cross purposes. The way I see Karen used in England is by men and younger women aimed at criticising older women of all races for speaking up in a way that if a man or younger woman had done would be unremarked on. So not related to race at all. It seems unfair that objecting to this labels one a racist. That can’t be what you intend?

Agreed. In the UK it almost never has anything to do with race. I'm seeing it increasingly as a put down for any woman who dares to have an opinion.

Fact is, there are people out there who think we're all Karens because we're on Mumsnet. Like this guy:

twitter.com/PaulMoroz5/status/1678757715504427009

It’s a reflection of the current crop of Karens (see mumsnet), who thrive on being dramatic about every bogeyman going.*

Agree with you both.

This guy was not calling Mumsnet posters racist. If you read the full tweet, in his mind Karens 'thrive on being dramatic about every bogeyman going. Nuclear war, terrorism, viruses, transgender, immigration, I’m a celeb, etc etc.' Nothing to do with race. And that's how 'Karen' is almost entirely used in the UK. Shorthand for 'a woman saying things I don't like'. Five minutes of searching on other social media platforms will show you that clearly.

Ok then we better go round telling everyone who isn’t white you are wrong about using the term Karen to call out underhand racism

I shall start tomorrow as some random people on MN have told me this

mmm I wonder what they shall call me

Yes it is my opinion that you can object to the misuse of a slang term like Karen, to someone being unfairly accused of being a Karen and should.

It is objecting to the existence of Karens, claiming that the word Karen is a slur and that the word Karen has nothing to do with racist behaviour which is problematic.

It doesn’t make you a racist, but it certainly puts you at cross purposes with Black women who use Karen in the way it was intended to be used and is still used to call out the racist micro aggressions we get from racist white women. It does a nice little DARVO on the situation and puts us, the victims of racism, in the position of aggressor and the racist white woman in the position of victim of a slur.

So if you want to be our ally, fight for Karen to be used the way it was originally intended, fight against its misuse. Don’t fight to silence us and label it a slur.

Once a word is labelled a slur, it gets censored. Whoever says it no matter the provocation becomes the aggressor.

Whether you like it or not, the meaning of 'Karen' has changed.

By coincidence I just saw something on TV where a young woman had attacked an older woman with a weapon. Reason: the 'Karen' (as the younger woman referred to her) had pushed her way into a queue. Both women were white.

@Baldieheid Yes, that's fair to say though that is in itself a subject riddled with pitfalls. However, one the main reasons I detest the umbrella groupings BAME/POC is again - different groups are affected, and treated, differently in similar circumstances.

He wasn’t saying they weren’t either, and by saying that 2 of the top 5 “bogeymen” were “terrorism” and “immigration” combined with using the term “”Karen” there is a good case to be made he was referring to actual Karens on MN as in the entitled racist meaning.

there is a good case to be made he was referring to actual Karens on MN as in the entitled racist meaning.

No chance whatsoever. Unless you're saying that no black women can be gender critical, or worried about Covid (probably what he meant with 'viruses') or about nuclear war?

Immigrants and terrorists can be white. For immigration, think Eastern Europe. For terrorism, think right-wing extremism or the recent problems in Northern Ireland.

I get that Karen is sometimes used to call out racist white women. But 99% of the time, in the UK, that's not how it's used.

So you keep saying

but I have heard it used to call out underhand racism by those on the reviving end

I really don’t feel it’s my place to tell someone they are in the wrong to use the term Karen as it’s also used to try and shut down middle aged women. I think they know what they are calling out they know their experience and that is what they are dealing with

So if you want to be our ally, fight for Karen to be used the way it was originally intended, fight against its misuse. Don’t fight to silence us and label it a slur.

Just how do you intend to re-educate the British public about the correct use of the term Karen? Because in the UK, as you've been told by multiple posters, multiple times, the term is largely an ageist and misogynistic one.

I get that Karen is sometimes used to call out racist white women. But 99% of the time, in the UK, that's not how it's used.

This is true. It's been said throughout the thread and ignored. I hope people aren't being disingenuous.

Not saying that.
He wasn’t saying in his tweet everyone who was talking those subjects were Karens, you are assuming that.

You are also being quite arrogant to say “no chance whatsoever” as you cannot know exactly what he was referring to unless you were him. That tweet can be interpreted in more than one way. At least I am framing my opinion as a good chance, as in a possibility and I think it is a real possibility.

I don’t think that cultural appropriation and misuse of Black slang in an offensive manner is a valid argument to then silence Black people from using our words for our lived experiences of racism. The fact that the appropriation means it’s misused 99% of the time by the vastly majority white population doesn’t make us wrong or our slang inherently offensive. That is simply white supremacy in action- it changed the meaning of our slang and can certainly change it back.

God forbid 😂

now we are throwing in stats

great

Majority representation and opinion on MN speaks for all of those living in the UK

How do you intend to do it? Far as I can see we got 17% when only 4% of us are Black. So this is time for allies to step up. Can’t say you’ve done any re-educating on this thread have you?

Why do some people keep accusing others of being disingenuous? That's not on. Some people have said that Karen is used in the UK for A, 99% of the time. 99% of what demographic? The whole of the UK? or simply 99% of what you've experienced?

Others have said that Karen is also mainly used for B in their experience.

Why are people in the former category expecting those in the latter to defer to their usage as THE ONE, then claiming they're being disingenuous when they disagree? That's pretty manipulative.

No one is saying go and tell people who aren't white what they can or can't say. People are just pointing out that more often than not, in the UK, the word is used by men (and some women desperate not be be on the receiving end of it themselves) as a term of abuse against any woman for the crime of refusing to be a meek doormat.

So why not go and tell off or educate those people, the ones actually responsible for taking and misusing the term, instead of wasting time berating the women objecting to it being used in that way?

You could start with the male-dominated Reddit, where every single day you'll find tons of examples of it being used against women in ways that have nothing to do with racism.

How do you intend to do it? Far as I can see we got 17% when only 4% of us are Black. So this is time for allies to step up. Can’t say you’ve done any re-educating on this thread have you?

dear oh dear

Where's your 17% from, Billabonggirl?

I haven't been trying to re-educate the posters of Mumsnet about the use of the term Karen.

I don't think you have either, going by your posts.

My % are from the current vote tally.

So why not go and tell off or educate those people, the ones actually responsible for taking and misusing the term, instead of wasting time berating the women objecting to it being used in that way?

Absolutely. It would make more sense than preaching to the converted, as it were.

It's not a term we're allowed to use on Mumsnet and anyone calling another poster a Karen has their post deleted (it happened earlier in the thread to the post that suggested we were Karens for complaining). Though this has also been mentioned, more than once, on this thread.

So why not go and tell off or educate those people, the ones actually responsible for taking and misusing the term, instead of wasting time berating the women objecting to it being used in that way?

Theres lots of misuse of Karen on this thread. Plus women insisting over and over that the misuse is actually the correct, most common, and even the original and intended use of Karen. That’s who we have been educating.

We’ve not berated a single person who has merely objected to Karen being misused at all.

Nobody has said it's the one usage. But it certainly is the majority usage, and it's sexist so we call it out.

Why is calling out the sexist usage problematic? As referenced and linked multiple times in this thread?

Change your vote then. If you’re converted that shouldn’t be 17% on there.
Theres not been any “preaching to the converted”.