What are all pensioners getting another £300 this winter??

[F0RBIDDENFRUIT]

They are amongst the richest people in the country, yes there are poor pensioners but a lot of them are way richer than anyone else.

£300 more for energy, none of the old people I know need this, they all have more money than their children.

Just because they vote, that is the only reason they can be doing this.

Due to our rubbish electoral system, 67% of any part of the electorate voting for a particular party can bear sod all resemblance to the outcome. Most UK governments are elected on a minority. Percentage of vote is largely meaningless without reference to constituency data in the UK.

That isn’t the difference at all. She’s produced one link. There are plenty of posters who deal in facts and present evidence. They also manage to do it without calling other posters ill educated.

£300 per household containing a pensioner (not per pensioner AFAIK) is probably a drop in the ocean compared to how much it would cost to make it means tested. And some really do need that money. My mother does. Plenty of others do.

Keeps them alive a bit longer

If you don't understand what I stated you clearly have no idea of how a large global multinational works.

But hey, no surprise to me.

All this argument about whether the 'normally £300' winter fuel allowance should be taxed or only given to those on pension credit are completely missing the main point.
The WFA is PER HOUSEHOLD not per pensioners so taxing it would be a nonsense.

Those on pension credit already get cold weather payments, free TV licences, Cost of living payments , Council Tax benefit as they are 'on benefits' and pay no tax.

I suggest some of you use google to look at the facts - most pensioners are not millionaires.

Plenty of posters have stated facts and figures when posting. Goblin is far from unique in that respect.

We just had a poster laugh at a sample of 40k people.

We also had a poster compare this thread to the holocaust.

At this point....what else can you do?

I am the only one that is actually constructing an argument with evidence.

Please feel free to point out someone else that is doing so.

Don't worry. I'll wait right here.

But that's all it is, a sample

I find the argument that means testing costs more is very bizarre given most benefits are mean tested. Why aren't we all getting universal credit if this is true? Child benefit which has to be paid back if income over a certain amount? Surely this would save LOADS of money if we didn't bother with means testing?

For those receive income from pensions why couldn't it be like Child benefit - you get over a certain amount you have to pay it back (or opt out)? It could be quite crude means testing.

As others have said it could also be linked to other benefits.

Look.

This is a government policy, and a blunt instrument at that.

If we’re giving away £300 per household without means testing it, what makes more sense?

a) giving it to the wealthiest demographic
b) not giving it to the wealthiest demographic

Tales of unlucky pensioners who are very poor are sad but not relevant to a policy with a blanket approach

I am the only one that is actually constructing an argument with evidence.

You posted the YouGov link?

Feel free to "teach" this individual what she needs to know.

At a certain point, an emphatic "you are wrong" needs to be stated if they are unwilling to learn.

Otherwise, you enable the thinking. And it keeps on going and going and going.

This is basic math.

Look at their response. They dont care.

Stating ‘Literally everything you wrote is factually incorrect’ isn’t providing evidence for an argument.
Some of us came for the five minute argument, some for the full half hour, and yet we still get just the basic contradiction. 😉

I have never understood the Government's decision to promote £X for winter fuel payment or £Y for another type of payment

Why not just increase the state pension each year instead ?

The child benefit means testing is effectively per household. The main child carer can earn next to nothing (owing perhaps to having to be the primary carer) and doesn't get to keep the child benefit if their spouse earns over a certain amount.

I think everyone needs to hold out for 20 - 30 years, all the old people will be dead, Labour will be in power and we will live in Utopia.

Or will the youth be villienising those on this thread?

Unfortunately I had to leave school at 16 to start working before I could even take my o levels. There was no option to go into higher education or university

It is tax free and pension is taxable. It used to given only in the event of an extreme winter.
When you're on a fixed income it can be very useful to receive a tax-free lump of this kind.

I find the argument that means testing costs more is very bizarre given most benefits are mean tested

Because the cost effectiveness of means testing benefits which pay out something like £73bn p.a is not comparable to means testing something that pays out £2bn p.a. It is not cost effective to means test someone for a £300 per year benefit.

The problem is that it would basically become a full time job correcting every single statememt that is incorrect.

The lack of knowledge and education is immense.

And the brutal reality in the UK is that the chasm cannot be bridged. It is too big.

This thread is a case in point.

Yes, of course. It is a trick as old as time. I doubt Labour will be in power by then though, we will have cycled back to the Tories

Unless we get PR in the UK. Then the Tories are possibly fucked for good.

You know what intelligence is?

Its not a function of eduction and experience.

Its a function of saying "I don't know" when presented with something you do not unferstand.

Thats it. Its no more difficult than that.

If you do not understand it, "I don't know" is fine.