What are all pensioners getting another £300 this winter??

[F0RBIDDENFRUIT]

They are amongst the richest people in the country, yes there are poor pensioners but a lot of them are way richer than anyone else.

£300 more for energy, none of the old people I know need this, they all have more money than their children.

Just because they vote, that is the only reason they can be doing this.

Ok, time to take out the sock puppets:

Tax Revenue = A
Govt spending = B

Right now B > A

Our budgetary deficit is about 20%

That means £1T Revenue and £1.20T spending.

State Pension is paid from tax revenue (NI also functions as a tax). Workers pay tax, and that tax is then used to pay SP for current retirees.

So by logical reasoning, the budgetary deficit of about £200bn can be proportionally assigned to its counterpart of the budget.

In the case of the State Pension it is about £120bn (2023).

Thats 12% of revenue of £1T

12% * £200bn (deficit) = £24bn

Thats £24bn/£120bn = 20%

So about 20% of the State Pension is currently being financed via borrowing.

It was over 67% of people over 70. 57% of those aged 60 - 69 and 49% aged 50 - 59. Generally people’s views turn more right as they get older. Thankfully I’m still a left wing, commie slime-ball - at least according to my bloke.

@BIossomtoes - the tendency of people to become right wing as they get older is precisely why I think we should not indulge the idea of "Tory division". It's actually more accurate to say it's a generational conflict.

Getting bored with this but anyway. If I earn £20,000 a year and get a £300 payment from the government I will pay tax on everything I receive over the threshold which is £12kish (may be a bit higher for pensioners, I am not sure of the exact sum).

Therefore I am paying substantially more into the kitty than the £300 I am receiving.

And means testing would probably cost a significant proportion of that £300.

And paying it might also keep pensioners out of hospital so that saves money.

IClaudine · Today 17:29

I haven't got kids. I am sick of paying for all of them to be educated until age 18. There should be IQ testing to weed out those who will only have the ability to work in a non-professional capacity or in the trades. They can leave school at 14 or 15 and get into the workforce, just like many of today's pensioners.

How about you keep your small minded bigotry to yourself?? It's not a benefit to the parents to send their children to school till 18! It's a benefit to the children. One which you were also entitled to take yourself. And actually you'd have been entitled to free education till the age of 21 since university education was paid for as well

That doesn't mean I disagree that people should be paying more tax. People moan about public services or lack thereof, but don't want to pay for them.

Are you seriously trying to compare a discussion about pension aged benefits with the Holocaust? You should be ashamed of yourself.

It isn’t generational conflict. The crossover age for likelihood to vote Labour to likelihood to vote Conservative is 39. There are at least two generations older than 39. Even 21% of 18 - 24 year olds voted Tory in 2019!

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/17/how-britain-voted-2019-general-election

Sorry I’m not getting you? Pitting the old against the young - having them blame each other for their current woes, amongst other groups that they can blame (migrants etc) definitely would help the conservative vote then wouldn’t it?
Also, whatever survey you looked at for those figures, what does it say about turn out in numbers of voters above and below 40, say?
IPSOS MORI has the 2019 GE pegged at turnout
18-24 - 47%
65+ - 74%
and that was with a winter GE where less elderly may have been expected to turnout than usual. A bit like the National Lottery, you can’t win it if you’re not in it.

2019 now a distant memory, that was the Corbyn effect.

Crossover for Starmer looks to be much older, and was for Blair.

Small minded bigotry is exactly right, and my post was a (obviously too convincing!) parody of the small minded bigotry displayed towards pensioners on this thread.

@Blossomtoes - disagree. There has always been a crossover in the vote.

However, the Conservatives are happy to make policies that suit pensioners. Fair enough if a pensioner voters for that. A choice.

But under the Conservatives it's a choice that penalises the young. And when you spend more and more on these policies, not paying teachers, but propping up housing costs, or pensioners not paying NICs, then you have no solidarity. So you have your generational conflict.

BTW, @Goslowglowworm free higher education only came in in 1962. So today's pensioners did not benefit from that and many did leave school at 14, 15 or 16.

DinnaeFashYersel, I think your penultimate remark is the right answer.

Very apt about the poster's pet ostrich - head firmly in sand. Rather as we would expect.

Its worse than that.

By diverting increasing amounts of money for consumption (pensioners), you reduce investment in regulation, capital infrastructure, education, healthcare etc. People were amazed when they found out Englands beaches and rivers were full of sewage. The regulatory body that overseas this area was gutted by the Govt to save money (just one in a long line of spending cuts to divert money to pensioners). They will of course claim its not their fault and act surprised (this is the part that I find truly annoying. They voted the Tories in and they kept asking for more to keep them in power. They are effectively responsible for it).

The net result of this is that the long-term rate of economic growth (in real terms) that dips below 1%, which then makes the whole country poorer in the aggregate sense, because due to our demographics we need it to be 2-2.5% for current finances to be sustainable.

I have tried repeatedly to explain this to the pensioners on here, but it has become clear they are not interested in reality or facts.

So unfortunately, their lifestyle will take an even larger hit when the UK hits rock bottom.

Its the classic penny wise, pound foolish mentality.

The state pension is not tax free. It’s added to the rest of your income to determine how much tax you pay.

Suppose you have £8000 state pension and £12000 occupational pension. Total £20,000. You pay tax on (£20,000 - £12570) = £7430.

If the state pension were tax free, you wouldn’t pay any tax because your occupational pension is less than the tax allowance.

The confusion is because the tax is all taken from the occupational pension, meaning it looks as if you’re paying a higher rate of tax than you should.

Stop it @TheThinkingGoblin . Stop trying to fuel intergenerational strife by blaming pensioners for the shit show of the past 13 years. That is down to the Tories being a bunch of incompetent, corrupt charlatans. (I am not a pensioner by the way. I am Gen X)

I have tried repeatedly to explain this to the pensioners on here, but it has become clear they are not interested in reality or facts

You have a long posting history of lecturing, hectoring and insulting people. You show zero interest in engaging with the provable facts presented by anyone who fails to genuflect at the altar of your superiority. Do you seriously expect anyone to be influenced by you?

Once again,

I dont really care how you justify this to yourself internally.

The nice thing about numbers and data is that you don't have to deal with your type of emotional arguments.

The numbers are very, very clear to me.

And pretty much all experts in my profession (actuarial) agree.

So again, go park those emotional arguments someplace else as they have no place in public policy discussions.

Yawn. Usual ageist shite.

You dont get a pass for being old.

Sorry.

Its a double standard on here that needs to stop.

Translation: "don't confuse me with inconvenient facts." The last election is where we are, but you don't like having your bigotry questioned. Be honest, if you can.

And you don’t get a pass for being rude.

I not asking or requiring "a pass".

You are.

Just look at the dozens of post on here about "you're ageist" or "you want to starve them" or "you want them to freeze to death"

Heck, we even had a person compare this thread to the holocaust!

I am very, very good at what I do. And I see the demographic wrecking ball that landed in the UK and is expanding.

If people want to continue on and pretend its all fine....thats their choice.

I will sit and observe from my perch. And shake my head when it all comes to pass.

Yes there are some poor pensioners.

TWO MILLION of them.

Well there's an inconvenient fact for the pretentious and callous lecturers on this thread.

But OP doesn't know any so they don't exist. Riiiight.