Batshit neighbours - right of way

[Jeelypieces20storeys]

Outing if anyone knows me but past caring. I live at the end of a terrace. We have a right of access over the bottom of 2 neighbours gardens (which has been fenced off from their "main' garden to create a pathway) to get to a communal garden shared by 7 houses. Neighbours whose garden we have to cross never use the garden, and made a point of saying so, so they don't have to help maintain it. Just used by the small children of 3 of the 7 houses.
The 2 neighbours have become v possessive over the path after we weeded & upgraded it (as apparently we are "stealing their land") and put a new high fence at entrance to communal garden which opens into the path (this is relevant).
My young child, 2 Dan's and neighbours child were playing in communal garden. My sis went to check on them & opened gate & stood & watched them for 3 mins max. Neighbour 1 came out & went to neighbour 2's garden who then came out yelling and screaming that the path was not to be used, she was "loitering" on their land & communal garden is a drying green not for children playing in. (It has swings, a trampoline etc & she's NEVER been in it ). Gate & lock are so high the kids can't reach & sis was just checking they hadn't got locked in.
It all got a bit heated. This is just bat shittery, yes? Does anyone know the rules of right of access? The kids werent playing IN the pathway.
Thanks if u got thru this. Am I BU to use path or is neighbour correct?

Is the property rented or do you own it?
Right of way will be shown on the deeds if you own it ( and would be described with a map when you bought)
If rented contact LL/HA.
If it’s a legally designated right of way no one can block it off.
Get proof of it, send copies in writing to the neighbours. Call LL/HA and Council if they’ve blocked a RoW.

If you own the property there will be mention of the rights of access in the title documents from Land Registry.

If you don’t own, copies can be obtained online from the Land Registry.

What your neighbour is quoting could well be correct as these rights often go back many years and had restrictive conditions. It’s also likely that all the houses are responsible for contributing equally to the upkeep of any shared areas.

The reality is that none of these things are realistically enforceable due to the passage of time.

Old neighbours can be such a pain!

If you have a right of way over their land - then they may be right - a right of way allows you to walk across their land, it does not give you the right to interfere with it (e.g. weeding it - as for upgrading it - definitely not your business, it is their land), not to remain standing on it - you can only use it for access to the land at the other end...

their obligation is simply to not block your right of access - they don't need to maintain it, but if they allowed vegetation to grow such that it blocks you then they would be in breach of their obligation to maintain the right of way and to allow you access.

walk over it and go onto the other land - don't hang around on their land, you don't have a right to occupy or use their land other than for passage across it...

their reaction is harsh, however from the sound of it they do have law on their side...

My neighbour has a right of way across the bottom of my garden. It sounds quite similar in that I have built a fence separating the path and my garden, which I only did because I needed to dog proof my garden.

I would secretly be quite pleased if somebody weeded the path for me, but at the same time, you weeding it and installing a gate would ring some alarm bells because whilst I recognise it is a right of way, it is still my land and it could be perceived that you are trying to stake some kind of claim on it and even have its purpose changed, I don't know.

The other thing about a right of way across somebody garden, is that it is a right of way, it is not a right of use. So standing there for three minutes is absolutely not acceptable. My neighbour has to walk across my path / garden without stopping. And how often I use my garden is irrelevant.

So overall, you are definitely in the wrong in a legal sense.

Check your deeds and see if there is right of access/easement and send to the neighbours.

Okay, my understanding having owned a couple of properties with rights of way is.
No one other than the owner of the property should be doing any maintenance or building on the path.
But the owner should be maintaining and keeping reasonable access.
The path is for walking through not standing around on.
If someone had started to try and upgrade my land I would have stopped that quickly.

Having lived in a terrace with shared access I agree with pps that "access" is the key word.
I understand that it feels irrational to complain about actions that improve the path but people can be irrational.

I'm interested in the nature of the communal garden. How is that defined?

Property owned. Right of access in title.
By upgrading I mean weeding, clearing moss & replacing some broken slabs as my son is severely autistic with visual processing disorder & I was scared he'd slip.
Neighbours replaced low gate which opened INTO communal garden with high gate which opens into path. Gate too high for child to open once it's shut and he is non verbal so can't call for help. My sis had literally walked up the path to open the gate a d check on the kids, then was waiting to bring DS back down (he takes a while to respond to commands). Shouty neighbour was indoors and not even aware kids were in garden till neighbour 1 told her.
They are now saying garden is "drying green" and not play area. Noone has used it as dryi g green (bar me) in the 5 years I have lived here.

If the purpose of the shared land is to dry clothes, which would be a limited number of trips by a single person, I can see why they may be irritable about children and child guests coming and going passing right by their house. Talk to them to work out a way you can reach the shared land which is minimally disruptive. Acknowledge rather than belittle their concerns. At least lose the attitude. You don't sound very neighbourly.

Relevance of gate opening into path now is that's impossible to open gate without "loitering" and now son can't freely access garden alive/with friends as they are saying visitors not allowed!

Replacing slabs in someone else’s garden without their permission - even with a right of way - is spectacularly rude

I'm annoyed as I've just had to deal with 2 neighbours verbally abusing my sisters & 3 young children for accessing the garden once in 6 weeks! I've bent over backwards to be neighbourly but yes, I'm annoyed that they are trying to block access to the only safe space my child has to play.
Children from 2 of the other houses okay in the garden daily, we very very rarely use it. Yes, I acknowledge I should have asked them if I could weed and replace the broken slabs but I genuinely thought I was doing them a favour!

It was still not your place to clear the path presuming you didn't ask and get permission. It is no more acceptable than you going into their house and starting to vacuum! It is hardly surprising that they "got possessive" after you did this, they are entitled to be possessive over their possessions, in this case land.

I initially read that you had installed a high fence, now I realise you mean they did. They are entitled to do that, it is their fence on their land, opening onto their land. So long as they don't lock it, it's fine.

You mentioned your sister standing on the path for "no more than three minutes" on your first post, again she should be walking without stopping, not watching a game, not waiting for anybody. She should be on the path for no more than seconds.

No idea on a dying green, maybe that is something you need to look into. But on the rest, the neighbours are definitely correct.

Right of way means just that. It I not your shared path to upgrade but a right to walk over that bit of their garden, ie a way over it. You do not share or jointly own any of their land. Did you ask permission to lay slabs and weed on their property?
And now they will get picky about any bylaws that may say it is a drink green not a communally owned play area?

Check your deeds, they list all covenants, including rights of way for access and should state exactly what the communal big is for

others are right, you were wrong to replace slabs, you should have asked. Weeding etc is their responsibility so next time they should be doing it.

ask them if you can arrange to hang the gate the other way, or put a handle on so it can be opened from the other side

I've weeded it for the past 5 years and previous owners also did so and neighbours were t even aware as there is a high fence blocking the path from their garden & they don't go in it as it only goes to communal garden which they don't use. Before fence was built, previous owners had to get police involved due to neighbour 1 blocking access.

Sounds like you're very much in the wrong here.

Also if your child is "severely autistic with visual processing disorder" he shouldn't be out there 'playing' on is own anyway, as it would be incredibly dangerous for him (fellow autistic mum here)

I think if it were my land, I'd also be pissed off.

Your title deeds will refer to an easement over the land that creates the path. This may or may not detail the purposes. Clearly it is to access the shared garden, but access doesn't just mean walking or running. It can involve checking on your children. Having a party on the path would be different matter.

What is the legal status of the additional communal garden area? Do you all have a share of the freehold? Again, it is highly unlikely that this is restricted and you would have noticed that on your title deeds if it was.

Your gesture regarding the path was nice and sensible. Any normal neighbour would have been pleased. However, I would always recommend seeking permission first. It means that they feel secure that you are not commandeering their property.

The gate needs to be altered so that it is safe for your son to use. Again, where there are shared maintenance costs there is usually a management committed made up of the shared freeholders or a management agency to whom you all pay a fee, but it sounds like there isn't one in this instance, which is tricky.

No one should be replacing slabs.
How would you feel in some came and laid a patio in your garden without asking?

It may well be a drying green if these are older properties. You should be able to check for this information.

I would start by apologizing to your neighbors for massively overstepping, plead ignorance. Then see if you can encourage them to relax on the play space side of the dispute.

As nice and helpful as it was to replace the slabs and it might have improved it, it’s wasn’t your place to do so without asking permission first.

what is a drying green?

amd I need a diagram

A drying green is where women dried the laundry before tumble driers. It probably is the historic purpose of the garden, but it is unlikely that the use of the garden is restricted to that purpose alone in the covenant.

Ok ok you should have asked permission before weeding their land and replacing slabs but you know that now. Just ask if you want to do it again in the future.

The right of way is for access not loitering blah blah blah but really, if you have to loiter there in order to check on the kids/through the gate, what are they going to do about it? It's not a criminal matter, it's a civil one. I think they need to get a life really. If they come out again I'd ask them what they propose to do about it. They can't block access so they either like it or lump it realistically.

With regards to the drying green not being for kids, I'd think the use of the land has clearly changed since it now has swings, a trampoline etc and you are the only one to have used it to dry laundry in the last 5 years. It's a communal space anyway and jointly owned.

The abusive neighbours is a matter for the police tbh.

I didn't lay slabs - I replaced 2 broken slabs which were a trip hazard with 2 identical unbroken ones but I acknowledge I was in the wrong to do this. My thinking had been that it was me who was worried that my child would trip so why should neighbour who technically own it have to pay?
But it feels like they are putting a time limit on how we can walk from one end of the path to the other, which with DS can be anything from 5 seconds to a few minutes if he gets distracted by a weed/fly etc!
Garden is fully enclosed and just grass. All houses have a responsibility to maintain it but in reality only us nd 1 other does.

If deeds do say there is a right of way to a drying green then that is what you have access to. I can imagine why neighbours are pissed off if use has changed from the odd person passing by on a sunny day to every Tom, Dick and Harry passing through to the local play area countless times a day, and then tampering with their property too. If you have a drying green that has no other access then that is all that it should be used for, you shouldn't be passing through to check on kids as there shouldn't be kids unattended in there.

I agree with a op re the wisdom of leaving a severely autistic non verbal child to play alone two houses away behind a high fence in a garden / with other children. It's such a weird thing to do I can't think about your access issue.