Batshit neighbours - right of way

[Jeelypieces20storeys]

Outing if anyone knows me but past caring. I live at the end of a terrace. We have a right of access over the bottom of 2 neighbours gardens (which has been fenced off from their "main' garden to create a pathway) to get to a communal garden shared by 7 houses. Neighbours whose garden we have to cross never use the garden, and made a point of saying so, so they don't have to help maintain it. Just used by the small children of 3 of the 7 houses.
The 2 neighbours have become v possessive over the path after we weeded & upgraded it (as apparently we are "stealing their land") and put a new high fence at entrance to communal garden which opens into the path (this is relevant).
My young child, 2 Dan's and neighbours child were playing in communal garden. My sis went to check on them & opened gate & stood & watched them for 3 mins max. Neighbour 1 came out & went to neighbour 2's garden who then came out yelling and screaming that the path was not to be used, she was "loitering" on their land & communal garden is a drying green not for children playing in. (It has swings, a trampoline etc & she's NEVER been in it ). Gate & lock are so high the kids can't reach & sis was just checking they hadn't got locked in.
It all got a bit heated. This is just bat shittery, yes? Does anyone know the rules of right of access? The kids werent playing IN the pathway.
Thanks if u got thru this. Am I BU to use path or is neighbour correct?

• a pp

No you are still not getting it. You cannot take five minutes to cross the right of way, it literally needs to be seconds. I would also be getting shirty if my neighbour started spending five minutes in my garden for whatever reason and I might also brush up on rules around dying greens! You are antagonising them and I am not really surprised. I would have to check my rules again, but I am also pretty sure that the right of way is extended to the neighbour, not the neighbour and a group of his friends.

And to the point somebody else made about loitering / checking up on children. They need to cross the right of way and enter the shared land, then they can check up on the children to their heart's content.

It was 3 children accessing the garden once in 6 weeks. Neighbours child/grandchildren use garden daily but their gardens open directly onto it. I was just so pleased DS actually joined the other kids to play for 5 mins & then neighbour came out bawling, all kids in tears & Ruined it.

You have got their backs up by replacing the paving slabs without permission so they are naturally becoming territorial over their garden and path.
When you say there is a trampoline etc in the shared garden now, did you put them there? Or did all of the neighbours agree for it to be there?
It sounds a little like you are monopolising the shared area. Are the others not using it because they don’t get a look-in because your family are always using it?
You said they were verbally abusive. Do you mean they were stating facts at you that you didn’t like? Or were they saying offensive things?

Is the neighbor who is using the garden as a daily playground the same one who is complaining about you accessing it for this purpose?

If it is I do think that this is unfair.

I have a drying area near me. I never go in it (despite having washing to dry and a shed there) as over the years it has been monopolized by certain families, with trampolines, slides, dogs etc. They do tend to regard it as their garden. And it is loud! On the occasions I do go to the shed, it has to be early morning or in the rain.

Swings were put in before my time by other owners, trampoline was put in this summer by another neighbour. Today was the first time we have used the garden to play in in over 2 months so I would hardly say I was monopolising it. I also used it once 6 weeks ago to hang out sheets. Neighbours 1 & 2 made a point of saying when we moved in that they would not be using garden and therefore would t contribute to any maintenance.

Son is non verbal, therefore doesn't make a sound. He literally likes to just sit on grass, take his shoes off and feel the grass on his feet, that's all.

Are other people reading the same posts as me? I'm surprised by such vicious responses

My parents have access through their garden and there is absolutely nothing in it that suggests their neighbour has to rush through it at a rate of knots! How bizarre. Clearly you can't have a bbq in it but you don't need to be 'seconds' as one poster wrote

And OP has clearly said this is the first time she's used it in 6 weeks

Although the right of way passage is technically part of the neighbours garden, they have fenced it off from their garden creating a corridor pathway to the communal gardens so coming out and shouting abuse is completely unnecessary for someone clearly checking on the kids due to the very high gate they installed.

OP yes you should have checked on the slabs but people saying this was massively unreasonable and has caused the issues I think are missing the undertones of craziness that you sound like you're dealing with often

Another neighbour had a bouncy castle there for 2 days over summer but nothing was said.
I'm not sure how I can make my son walk quicker up the path or come out of the garden quicker to limit the time gate is open?

@Aprilx where are you getting this from? Who says it needs to be seconds? Unless the deeds state a time limit (which I have never seen) it takes as long as it reasonably takes. You wouldn't tell an old lady with a zimmer frame that she can't use the right of way because it will take her 5 minutes to use it, and you can't tell an autistic child they can't use it unless they speed up either. It's discriminatory.

Surely it would only take seconds to cross an average size garden? I don't expect my neighbour to run but it simply would not take more than a few seconds.

Thank you @Hollyisalrightactuallysorry, the fact that previous owners had to get the police out to neighbour 1 gives an idea of what we are dealing with.

@Aprilx the path is the length of 2 gardens. Yes, if it's just me I can cross it in under 30 seconds but DS is slower as he has some repetitive movements he (feels he )has to make when walking.

I'm no expert on right of access rules but I get the feeling that no one on this thread is and then a lot of stuff is being made up.

I'd be surprised if there's a rule about how quickly you have to walk along the path.

I agree they are probably annoyed about you weeding and changing paving slabs but apart from that, they shouldn't have bought a house with a right of way along the bottom if they have a problem with it.

You're definitely not monopolising the area, OP, but there are certain kids in it daily, which can be a strain to live by. Then its escalated by extra kids being in there etc. I mean, the sound of kids playing in the distance is lovely, but when they're screaming by your window, it's a bit different.

High gate was probably their attempt to contain the disturbance (although obviously can see your issue with a child not being able to get out) (I doubt they thought about which way it would open, and it could possibly be changed, as a PP suggested).

My point about me avoiding my area, even though I'd like to use it ... Those neighbours might have originally used your one but were put off by the fact it's used as a playground.

@Aprilx my parents neighbour is 80. She can take a few minutes. Sometimes forgets something and toddles back. Sometimes brings the hose around to water her front or a wheelbarrow. She's considerate of the time it takes but cannot do it in seconds just as an autistic child can't do it in seconds. The difference is my parents are civilised people and use a bit of common sense

I'd be surprised if there's a rule about how quickly you have to walk along the path.

There won't be.

You have no right to do anything to their property - including replacing broken slabs.

You have right of access, not right to make changes to their land.

The child is disabled- are you saying disabled people don’t have the same access rights because they walk more slowly?!

Do you seriously believe that the deeds say ‘there is a right of way ONLY for people who can cross the garden in a matter of seconds’?

You really can't spend longer than it takes to walk at a reasonable pace along a right if access through someone's garden.

My daughters row of terraced cottages has this arrangement, and I wouldn't dream of hanging around or taking my time in her neighbours gardens. And I'd find it very weird if someone took even one minute to cross hers.
Your son simply does not get to ponder the stones etc in your neighbours garden. You should be walking him through and ensuring that he keeps walking.

I get that he's autistic, but he can still be moved along. And yes, I find it odd that you leave a non verbal child alone in a space with a tall gate and one or two other houses between you.

@saraclara And yes, I find it odd that you leave a non verbal child alone in a space with a tall gate and one or two other houses between you.

I find it odd that you started this with "And yes" as though the OP asked for your opinion on this at all. I find it odd that you think you are better placed than the OP to decide what is appropriate for her son based on a Mumsnet thread 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think the mistake you’re making is thinking of it as a path. It’s not a path, it’s the bottom of their gardens. They’ve fenced it off for privacy and security but it’s still their gardens.

I agree with @saraclara If her son can’t manage to walk over broken paving stones and struggles to walk through a garden access even with someone with him, then how is he managing the communal garden by himself?

I think the changing of paving slabs is completely out of order.
The equipment in a shared garden would also piss me off.