Batshit neighbours - right of way

[Jeelypieces20storeys]

Outing if anyone knows me but past caring. I live at the end of a terrace. We have a right of access over the bottom of 2 neighbours gardens (which has been fenced off from their "main' garden to create a pathway) to get to a communal garden shared by 7 houses. Neighbours whose garden we have to cross never use the garden, and made a point of saying so, so they don't have to help maintain it. Just used by the small children of 3 of the 7 houses.
The 2 neighbours have become v possessive over the path after we weeded & upgraded it (as apparently we are "stealing their land") and put a new high fence at entrance to communal garden which opens into the path (this is relevant).
My young child, 2 Dan's and neighbours child were playing in communal garden. My sis went to check on them & opened gate & stood & watched them for 3 mins max. Neighbour 1 came out & went to neighbour 2's garden who then came out yelling and screaming that the path was not to be used, she was "loitering" on their land & communal garden is a drying green not for children playing in. (It has swings, a trampoline etc & she's NEVER been in it ). Gate & lock are so high the kids can't reach & sis was just checking they hadn't got locked in.
It all got a bit heated. This is just bat shittery, yes? Does anyone know the rules of right of access? The kids werent playing IN the pathway.
Thanks if u got thru this. Am I BU to use path or is neighbour correct?

Diagram for those who asked.

I think this is right.

Going back to your original post, I think the question is more about whether guests of the houses with access also have right of access, rather than speed of crossing!

And if your sister went through the gate to stand in the shared garden rather than stand on the path.

I accept your neighbours seem difficult which is really horrible when there's shared access But it would be worth checking your legal position so you can perhaps try and clarify things with your neighbours.

Exactly - much as I'm sure op's son has lots of strengths and abilities the difficulties mean it's foolish to leave him alone - can't walk without trip risk, takes a while to respond to commands, can't open the fence/gate, non verbal and severely autistic.

He's never left 'alone" but the gate is six foot high, the lock is about 5 foot 8 and his older cousins are short!
He is also a very placid wee soul who could not come to Any harm in a patch of grass for 2 mins alone. But paving slabs have lines, and he struggles to cross lines on the ground, it's hard to explain if u don't have a child with his needs.
I wish I could just "hurry him along" and am open to any suggestions as to how to do this as if you do he just lies down and efuses to move. It would make crossing the road/shopping/daily life so much easier.

It's good of you to maintain it but it's not your job or your right so I'd leave it to them but do complain if they don't keep it tidy for your route through. As for your child it sounds like they need supervision anyway, so that shouldn't be an issue.

The path is fenced off from their garden, so your sister standing in the pathway a few minutes watching the kids is a bizarre thing to get that worked up over as she’s not affecting them in any way, you weeding the path and replacing broken slabs was beneficial to them as they are supposed to be doing that, you did them a favour. They may technically be right, but their reaction to this is bizarre and unreasonably aggressive (they could have calmly discussed this with you instead of kicking off and shouting) imo and I can see why you’re upset.

I would re check what the rules actually are.

i have never given a shiny shit about being on good relations with neighbours and will happily fall out over fences and boundaries. So the neighbours shouting wouldn’t bother me. However you really need to know where the law lies before you react. If you are falling outside of the covenant then you need to work out how to abide by it. If they have made it impossible to abide by then you need to make that clear.

Either way it’s a civil matter and if you think you’re in the right let her pursue you through her solicitors and spend some money on a letter to you.

Thanks for the diagram.
Does it show that all gardens bar 2 have direct access to the communal area?
And houses 5 and 6 use no. 4's Gate? Which is the gate you replaced with a high one?

You’ve been the one to aggravate the situation by replacing paving in someones garden and acting like you own it

I live in a ground floor maisonette/cottage flat or whatever. End terrace.

My neighbours who bought the property seem to think they can fool me that they have a right of way through their back garden in mine.
They absolutely used to abuse it and send their kids in to play.

But the fact is, before they built an extension/conservatory, there was no gate. They just had grass. They had a gate to their neighbours on the other side. And there was a hedge separating our properties.

They basically removed most of my hedge (boundary) left a gap between their extension and the bush and now try to claim they will put a gate there. And there wall is now my boundary :/
But I've asked my housing association and they said they will get back to me but they are sure that they told him to block it off.

But I can see how annoying it would be if it is their land and they have children running around it!

My sister walked across path, and immediately entered garden. She checked on kids and started encouraging DS to come back to our own garden. To avoid gate banging shut and damaging new gate she stood with her back to gate to hold it open while DS dilly-dallied his way along. She was there for a matter of minutes in total, out of sight of neighbour who had no idea she was there until other neighbour went to tell her.

We are house 6. Houses 4, 5 and 6 have gates opening onto the "pathway" which is technically part of 4 and 5's garden. There is a separate high gate leading from the pathway to communal area. I didn't put this in, houses 4 and 5 did. All other houses have direct access to communal garden.

I just don't want my child (or his care-giver) being shouted at for not sprinting down the path!

But isn't the issue that instead of walking down the access way and going straight in to the communal garden - your sister waited by the gate in the access way

Why didn't she go in to the communal area, get your son sorted out, and then come back through the gate when he was ready?

If I was your neighbour your behaviour around doing up the path without a conversation would cause me a concern.

You don’t sound like you’re trying to land grab and had good intentions but my neighbour (who is truly batshit and a CF) lay a whole path of flags through my land after we bought our house and was trying to lay a claim to it. We checked things out legally, called the police, gave a deadline for removal, and fenced our land in as they had no right of way.

Worth double checking your deeds around what the communal garden can be used for and if it’s for something very specific and not to play in I’d suggest making peace with your neighbours.

I’m guessing your sister was shouted at because you interfered with their land without consent, even if you did it from a good place it’s not your land.

That’s not what happened though?
Your child was in the communal area, your sister was standing and watching from outside the communal area and on your neighbours garden.

You don’t seem to grasp that you did that in someone else’s garden.

You should have asked them. Or at least spoken to them first. You’ve basically treated a part of their garden as your own.

Thats likely not helped the situation with the communal area - if they feel like you’re taking the piss with the access, and the communal are then every little thing will be annoying them.

We immediately replaced the slabs with the broken ones 6 weeks ago when they raised the issue and explained it was literally because we hadn't wanted to bother them with it, and not an attempt at a land grab, so I had presumed it had all blown over. I acknowledge we (technically DH, I hadn't even known he was doing it) were in the wrong for this.

But I didn't expect my sister to get verbally abused in front of our children for holding a gate open briefly 6 weeks later.

I understand why you are upset and I agree that your neighbours behaviour is unreasonable.

I think there's been an unfortunate history that has irritated them but that doesn't excuse anyone shouting at children.

It’s all part of the same issue - it’s going to feel like you are trying to lay more claim than you are entitled to, to their land. This is probably the tip of the iceberg of how they feel. If you always act this entitled it’s going to get their backs up.

So do houses 4 & 5 have a fence separating their gardens from the path? So to access the communal garden they have to go through a gate onto the path and then through the big gate onto the communal garden? So when you tided up the path it was actually two neighbours land not just one? Are both 4 & 5 pissed off with you or just one of them?

May have missed it but who actually put the swing and trampoline etc in there? Was that possibly taken as another poorly thought out encroachment?

It’s all part of the same issue though.

You’ve been presumptuous about their garden, and they obviously feel you are taking the piss with the children playing in the drying area. Your sister standing in their garden is likely the final straw.

pathway" which is technically part of 4 and 5's garden. T

Nice diagram OP. You might find this easier to understand if you can accept that it is part of their garden. There isn't any technically about this.

They need to understand that your ds doesn't have to sprint along and his disability may mean it takes him longer.

It isn't clear how restrictive the covenant for the open space is at this point.