Is this bullying?

[Gault642]

Dd11 has been accused of bullying by her friend and her mum. I really don’t think there is anything going on that would come close to bullying - but before I go in all guns blazing and stand up for Dd, I want to get the Mumsnet truth and make sure I am not being biased.

DD has been close friends with another girl in class since age 5. She is a bit of a marmite character - bubbly and good fun, but likes things her own way and has a tendency to be quite mean to anyone who challenges her. Dd is pretty easy going and knows how to take her, but she always seems to be involved in drama with other girls and some of them do now keep a distance. now avoid her. Dd tends to have quite a few close friends in the class and floats between them all, but this girl would very much consider dd to be her “best friend” and can be quite possessive.

Over summer, DD has spent a lot of time doing a hobby which is shared with some other girls in her class. As a result they have spent a lot of time together, and a day at the hobby has sometimes turned into a sleepover, hanging out together afterwards, etc. This girl doesn’t do the hobby and doesn’t get on well with a couple of the girls in that group so hasn’t been invited, although dd has met up with her separately on other occasions.

Checking DDs phone recently I have noticed a few aggressive feeling messages from this girl. Along the lines of “why are you choosing them over me”, “i suppose you’ll be going to x’s house today AGAIN”, etc. Obviously feeling left out, which is a shitty feeling so I do empathise. But I think friendships are just changing naturally, dd still likes this girl and wants to stay friends, but just isn’t as intense as she is about the friendship.

Earlier today I received the following text from the girl’s mum:
”I wanted to let you know that x has been extremely upset recently. She has told me all about dd’s behaviour and frankly I am disgusted that someone who calls x a friend would behave in this way. X has been consistently and deliberately left out, and bullied relentlessly by dd. It has ruined both her summer and mine, and x is now terrified about starting school. I am left with no alternative but to report this bullying to school so they can take appropriate action”.

Dd, this girl and most of the other girls in her class are starting Y8 at a new school next week, so dd is now hysterical, thinking that she will be immediately labelled a troublemaker. She has assured me that there is no more to it than what I already know, I check her phone regularly anyway but have been through it again as thoroughly as possible and although there is a definite tension between the girls I can’t see anything overly concerning.

AIBU that this is absolutely not bullying?

It is the hardest thing but you are right not to engage at this point. I admire your strength in not starting a text war!

Other mums will see if they dont already who the protagonists are. And act accordingly.

What the other girl needs long term is emotional and social support to find her place and broaden her own social circles and boost her own confidence rather than putting her on a pedestal as a woe is me pity me victim.

Dynamics change, friendships change all the time at these ages. The other mum should be trying to lessen the intensity of the friendship from her daughter's POV rather than encouraging her to cling tighter to it.

The mum is really stunting her daughter's social growth and wellbeing.

My response to the other mums would be that you've looked through phones/social media and been nearby when the girls have hung out and you've not seen any bullying yourself. I'd say that unless you see any nasty or bullying behaviour you're not going to get involved in changing friendship dynamics, and will let the girls sort it out themselves. It's good for them to learn to navigate these changes by themselves.

Kind of a "they go low, we go high" thing.

She's crazy.

Any further messages from the other I would reply "So you think DD should give up gymnastics to stop your DD feeling left out🧐?"

No it’s not bullying. Year 7-11 I found is the worst time for friendship battles. My daughter is now at college but has several different groups of friends that she sees regularly. She has one school friend that is very jealous and still at 17 sends messsges like that. Now my daughter brushes it off knowing what she’s like but all through school she really struggled with it. Also year 8 is a time to sort things out yourself. No matter how angry I’ve become sometimes I wouldn’t dream of messaging another parent (unless it was really bad). Trouble is some mums think their kid can do no wrong. It’s nothing to do with school. They have enough to deal with in actual school time.

Could possibly be perceived as social exclusion if she is being left out on purpose, but as she doesn’t do the hobby and the get togethers are around it then I would say probably not. Is your dd seeing this girl at all or is she only seeing the hobby people?
The mum prob perceives it as her daughter being left out and yours being ‘mean’. She’s overreacting unless there’s stuff your not party to in social media. Going to the school is OTT though, the school are not going to be interested unless there’s obvious bullying behaviour.

@Goatymum the OP has explained that she has seen drama girl on her own several times over the holidays and the social time with the other girls is directly after their gymnastics commitments. They just happen to also be on the same class at school.

Agree @Positive41 I wouldn't be able to be polite to this woman now she's decided to try and involve other people in her drama.

OP - The girl's Mum (teacher?!?!) has really gone OTT with this. Whilst I appreciate, watching your own daughter cry everyday over friendships is absolutely the worst (been there, bought the T-shirt in Years 6,7,8,9) and you seem to have displayed empathy towards this, the behaviour displayed by the Mum is shocking.

She is effectively now bullying you/your DD and she needs to be told to stop. It was bad enough before she sought to garner control /support of the situation by messaging the other girl's mum's from the group and was clearly trying to get them on side!! Such awful behaviour and it's no wonder her DD is displaying the same kind of behaviour if she witnesses her own Mum's awful tendency to over react.

@Goatymum ive been thinking about this non-stop since the message from the mum and it is definitely not social exclusion. This girl does know the other girls from school, but they aren’t close friends. She would have no issue with this group meeting up without her- the issue is that DD is with them. Ironically DD still considers this girl to be a good friend and wants the friendship to continue, she just isn’t prepared to spend every waking minute with her and forsake all other friends for her.

Honestly the other mum is being insane. Girls friendships can be so fluid at this age. Actual bullying aside they have to manage this themselves. Some friends dds have stuck loyally in their primary school group. Most girls don’t.

My own 14 year old is a social butterfly and has a huge group of friends from different schools as well. Drama mum would have a coronary.

I think I'd say to all who ask:

X can't offer any details as there are none. Her daughter appears upset that my DD has been more involved in gymnastics this summer and has only been able to spend time with her on average, once a week.

Its not confrontational really (well the bit about not being able to offer any more details is but i think its necessary as shes alluding to things that simply haven't happened!) and not dramatic and if you tell everyone who asks or raises it the same thing, there won't be room for whispers and drama!

I knew it would be gymnastics. My Dd was an elite gymnast for many years. Other kids don't understand the sport and the camaraderie between the team mates. My Dd spent her whole summer training. 6 hour days etc so no one else got it and therefore she spent her time with those that did. The other mother is being ridiculous (and maybe a little jealous of the girls and their abilities)

As you describe it, no, it is not bullying. Your daughter is allowed to he part of other friendship groups to which this friend does not belong and she has no right to expect to be included in everything your daughter does.

Her mum should be working on developing her own daughter's social skills and friendship opportunities, not relying on your daughter to facilitate them.

Your DD is clearly not bullying this other girl, however, her mother is now bullying your 12 year old daughter - that's outrageous!

The teacher mum sounds very over invested & slightly unhinged.

Sadly I was on the receiving end of this as an adult friend! The mother was vile to me on holiday & screaming at me in anger because her DD (in her twenties!) didn’t have any other friends. Suffice to say the friendship didn’t last! I distanced myself when I realised the friend had the same tendencies as her mother.

Hopefully your DD can distance herself from the other girl.

Hmm. The other mother sounds overbearing and difficult and is probably fanning the flames of paranoia with her DD and making it A THING. Possibly she likes drama, hence contacting other mums (wtf?!!). She reminds me of a few people I know, inc my own beloved mother... I think your text was very reasonable and from now, less is more... Let her look irrational and OTT.

I would ask the other mums to send you screenshots of the mum’s bullying texts and show them to the headteacher and ask for the girls to be in separate classes.

Send:

“In a ‘The Apple Doesn’t Fall Far From The Tree’ way I’m starting to
see exactly why your daughter isn’t popular. Get a grip of yourself you tiresome bitch”

I mean don’t, obviously 😂

Tell the mum that the reason no one invites her daughter is because she’s acting just like her and it’s off putting.

Don’t make your child be friends with her because she’s scared of being labelled a bully, I think what her and her mum are doing is bullying.

Bullying is a sustained pattern of aggression by someone with more power, targeting someone with less power. I’d say if your DD or someone else in her group has been encouraging others to isolate one girl that is absolutely bullying. Can you even imagine how isolating that would be? Read this feature and educate yourselves: https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2022/mar/19/how-to-bully-proof-your-kids-for-life-according-to-the-expert
I would get the whole group in one room and ask them if these are the kind of humans they want to be? There is always a ringleader in these situations and it’s important to work out who that is.

The only bully in this scenario is the teacher mum.