Is this bullying?

[Gault642]

Dd11 has been accused of bullying by her friend and her mum. I really don’t think there is anything going on that would come close to bullying - but before I go in all guns blazing and stand up for Dd, I want to get the Mumsnet truth and make sure I am not being biased.

DD has been close friends with another girl in class since age 5. She is a bit of a marmite character - bubbly and good fun, but likes things her own way and has a tendency to be quite mean to anyone who challenges her. Dd is pretty easy going and knows how to take her, but she always seems to be involved in drama with other girls and some of them do now keep a distance. now avoid her. Dd tends to have quite a few close friends in the class and floats between them all, but this girl would very much consider dd to be her “best friend” and can be quite possessive.

Over summer, DD has spent a lot of time doing a hobby which is shared with some other girls in her class. As a result they have spent a lot of time together, and a day at the hobby has sometimes turned into a sleepover, hanging out together afterwards, etc. This girl doesn’t do the hobby and doesn’t get on well with a couple of the girls in that group so hasn’t been invited, although dd has met up with her separately on other occasions.

Checking DDs phone recently I have noticed a few aggressive feeling messages from this girl. Along the lines of “why are you choosing them over me”, “i suppose you’ll be going to x’s house today AGAIN”, etc. Obviously feeling left out, which is a shitty feeling so I do empathise. But I think friendships are just changing naturally, dd still likes this girl and wants to stay friends, but just isn’t as intense as she is about the friendship.

Earlier today I received the following text from the girl’s mum:
”I wanted to let you know that x has been extremely upset recently. She has told me all about dd’s behaviour and frankly I am disgusted that someone who calls x a friend would behave in this way. X has been consistently and deliberately left out, and bullied relentlessly by dd. It has ruined both her summer and mine, and x is now terrified about starting school. I am left with no alternative but to report this bullying to school so they can take appropriate action”.

Dd, this girl and most of the other girls in her class are starting Y8 at a new school next week, so dd is now hysterical, thinking that she will be immediately labelled a troublemaker. She has assured me that there is no more to it than what I already know, I check her phone regularly anyway but have been through it again as thoroughly as possible and although there is a definite tension between the girls I can’t see anything overly concerning.

AIBU that this is absolutely not bullying?

I wouldn’t discuss this with the other mother. Invite her to write (an indisputable record) exactly what she thinks has happened. She might have a light bulb moment and realise how ridiculous this is. Refer to the exchanged messages you have which should resolve the matter.
I’d later remind her that the school has no responsibility for what happens between children during the holidays. (I’m a retired head of year.) Threatening to report your daughter and sully her reputation is bullying. If she does proceed, be assured teachers are versed in this, will notice a pattern and make a value judgement.
Apples don’t fall far from trees, do they?

This isn’t bullying. I sympathise with the girl being left out but if I was her mum I’d be mortified she sent your dd those messages and tell her that’s absolutely not okay. The left our girl needs to focus on widening her circle and not sending borderline abusive messages to your dd. Receiving those texts must be very stressful for her!

If the mum texts you again i would sympathise but says it not acceptable for her dc to be sending your dd those sorts of messages and while it’s a shame they have drifted apart they’re old enough to sort it out themselves and pick their own friends. The school won’t care as it’s not bullying its just life. It sounds like a good thing your dd has other friends!

If anything I see the other girl trying to intimidate your daughter! Print out / save those messages.

Ah jeez, I sent my message and have just has a reply “oh come on, you know exactly what I am talking about. Dd has gone out of her way to avoid x all summer, and made her feel like absolute shit. I’ve had my child in tears nearly every night thanks to her so don’t act like she is innocent here”.

So doesn’t sound like there is anything more to it that what I already know, but it is just being made into a drama. I need to draw a line under this - do I just ignore? Or I was thinking good replying with:
”I assume this is because dd has been spending time with (other girls). She has a wide friendship group and I don’t see a problem with that. X has also been spending time with other friends and I don’t see any issue with that. Friendships change all the time at this age and I don’t think we as parents can force things, nor do I think it constitutes bullying. Unless you can give me some evidence that shows there is more to it that I am aware of, I am going to let the girls sort this out between themselves and don’t think we are going to achieve anything discussing it further”

Perfect message - but then I wouldn’t reply any further. She sounds like type to want to draw you into an argument.

Those saying that teachers will see through this…can you guess what the mum’s occupation is?! Yup, she is a teacher 🤣. Thankfully not at the school the girls are going to though!!

Haha! I have to say though as a teacher, I’m much more rational with other people’s children!

Haha, I'm a teacher and there are def types. Is she primary? It's not bullying but it is hard on the other girl.

It’s a good response but you’re not dealing with a rational person here so do not expect a rational response! I’m sorry she’s a teacher, we aren’t all unhinged!

it isn’t bullying and actually I think you should be relieved that DD has seen the light and will avoid her. Talk to her about how toxic friendships are / people that love drama. To look out for (and hold on to) friends who make you feel good about yourself and back away from those who don’t. I hammered home the drama thing in to DD (now 16) and although it meant she went through a few friendships she is a good judge of character and avoids the drama herself.

I've pretty much had the same thing OP so I sympathise. Mine got as far as the father (separated from mother) waiting for me in a car park outside of a club to scream a shout about my daughter bullying his. Very similar where his child was jealous of friendships with other girls. I ended up emailing the school who interviewed both girls and the truth came out in our favour. Family have moved schools now but telling everyone it's my DD that forced the move. It'll happen again at the new school but I doubt the parents will get that the issue lies with their DD.

So she’s 11/12?puberty drama on its way. You’ve dealt with it well, only other thing I’d have mention is the number of times your two daughters have met up and chatted over the holidays so that’s it’s clear you daughter hasn’t excluded or dumped her friend.
Teacher here too, it’s amazing and terrifying how important ‘friends’ are to teenage girls. I spend so much of my time dealing with fallouts!
Sounds like the apple didn’t fall far from the tree by the way…

It is hard on the other girl I agree. But at the same time dd has met up with her maybe 5 or 6 times over the summer. Given we were on holiday for 1 week and they were on holiday for 2 weeks that is not insignificant. This girl also has other friends that she has been out with, so isn’t exactly sat home alone with no mates. I think it is just jealousy that dd has other friends/fear that they might steal dd away from her. She has had some serious fallings out with a couple of the girls in this group over the years so I don’t think she is ever likely to be part of it, but that isn’t DDs problem.

Ive sent the message, but will take your advice @Bex5490 and won’t be replying to her again.

@eish this is very good advice, thank you

Reporting it to school is a massive over reaction. Your DD not bullying.

I think the mother is over reacting, but you should also try and have a bit of empathy here. It’s awful seeing your dcs go through these types of friendship dramas. It’s draining and upsetting. Some of us have been there,and it’s easy to behave a little bit irrationally when you see how distressed your dc is, and you’re helpless to help make it right for them.

Is this a horse hobby Op? It's easy to get close to people (especially kids) when they share a common passion. At the stables I went to, all the kids lived on each others pockets all the time. It's not uncommon. The fact that your DD still saw the other friend is not bullying at all. Even if she didn't, that wouldn't be bullying either! Kids can be friends with whoever they want. Your text replies are very polite and calm 😀

That is a lot especially as everyone has been away. Are they in the same tutor group? Can you email tutor and explain what has happened over the summer in a factual way and ask them to look out for both girls.

I suspect her friend gets all her need for drama from her mum. So many parents do this (I have some real dislikes about things and as an adult I realised it was passed on from my mother not my actual opinion!) but this also includes anxieties and learnt behaviours. Equally I do know people whose children are just a law unto themselves and not easily influenced, however, I often have parents who have projected their worries on to their child.

I think your plan of no longer engaging is a good one.

You’ve sent a wise and cogent message. Now draw a line under it. Don’t engage if the mother continues. It’s not on you or your daughter.
You and your DD have been very fair and reasonable, more than fair tbh.

Honestly I wouldn’t be keen on a friendship where the girl seems to be trying to force your DD to include her in everything she does. I do feel sorry for her, it’s shit feeling left out but at the same time berating someone of they aren’t exclusively hanging out with you is a bit much. You can’t force yourself on people. It’s up to your DD but I’m not sure this friendship is a healthy one.

@xyz111 not a horse hobby, no. But something the girls are really passionate about and spend a lot of time doing. The other parents are in a similar position to myself having to work full time and try and get them back and forth, so a lot of their socialising outside of the hobby actually comes from practicality - e.g. one parent will volunteer to pick them all up and bring them back to theirs, someone else will volunteer the next day so we’re all helping each other out and not all having to take time out of work.

11/12 is a rough age though. I still remember the trauma of my two best friends joining a youth club and making lots of new and exciting friends without me. It felt like the worst thing in the world at the time, but it is just the reality of life!

Im a bit bemused as to what the school has to do with this? Especially a school they've not started at yet.

It actually seems as though the other girl is the one bullying from the tone of the messages.

It seems she can have other friends but your daughter can't? Quite controlling.

Your daughter has seen her a lot over the holidays

Mum is nuts. Your messages are very restrained. Definitely ignore further comms. And don’t email new school, they will sniff out the drama a mile off and ignore it!

X has been consistently and deliberately left out, and bullied relentlessly by dd.

She says left out AND BULLYING.I think you need to ask her what form t his alleged bulĺying took.

I don't think looking through her phone necessarily proves her innocence as anyone with an ounce of sense would delete anything incriminating

Just make sure dd keeps all the messages or screen shot them to your phone so you have it all just incase the mum does decide to weirdly get the school involved

It's sad really because it sounds like dd has made time to spend with the friend separately from the hobby group and the friends mum involving herself is likely to ruin the relationship your dd and hers have

I have a 28 year old, 20 year old , 12 year old and 10 year old so have spent way too many years watching this sort of shit play out. Not even with my dc really but with other dcs in the friendship groups

Some parents are way to involved when they should stay out of it and just tell their dc that xchild is still their friend, is still spending time with them but is also going to have other friends they spend time with too

It says it all that the mum can't send you examples of bullying

Op has already asked the mum to send examples of this bullying so she can go through it and talk to her dd about it if needs be , the mum obviously doesn't have any examples