Is this bullying?

[Gault642]

Dd11 has been accused of bullying by her friend and her mum. I really don’t think there is anything going on that would come close to bullying - but before I go in all guns blazing and stand up for Dd, I want to get the Mumsnet truth and make sure I am not being biased.

DD has been close friends with another girl in class since age 5. She is a bit of a marmite character - bubbly and good fun, but likes things her own way and has a tendency to be quite mean to anyone who challenges her. Dd is pretty easy going and knows how to take her, but she always seems to be involved in drama with other girls and some of them do now keep a distance. now avoid her. Dd tends to have quite a few close friends in the class and floats between them all, but this girl would very much consider dd to be her “best friend” and can be quite possessive.

Over summer, DD has spent a lot of time doing a hobby which is shared with some other girls in her class. As a result they have spent a lot of time together, and a day at the hobby has sometimes turned into a sleepover, hanging out together afterwards, etc. This girl doesn’t do the hobby and doesn’t get on well with a couple of the girls in that group so hasn’t been invited, although dd has met up with her separately on other occasions.

Checking DDs phone recently I have noticed a few aggressive feeling messages from this girl. Along the lines of “why are you choosing them over me”, “i suppose you’ll be going to x’s house today AGAIN”, etc. Obviously feeling left out, which is a shitty feeling so I do empathise. But I think friendships are just changing naturally, dd still likes this girl and wants to stay friends, but just isn’t as intense as she is about the friendship.

Earlier today I received the following text from the girl’s mum:
”I wanted to let you know that x has been extremely upset recently. She has told me all about dd’s behaviour and frankly I am disgusted that someone who calls x a friend would behave in this way. X has been consistently and deliberately left out, and bullied relentlessly by dd. It has ruined both her summer and mine, and x is now terrified about starting school. I am left with no alternative but to report this bullying to school so they can take appropriate action”.

Dd, this girl and most of the other girls in her class are starting Y8 at a new school next week, so dd is now hysterical, thinking that she will be immediately labelled a troublemaker. She has assured me that there is no more to it than what I already know, I check her phone regularly anyway but have been through it again as thoroughly as possible and although there is a definite tension between the girls I can’t see anything overly concerning.

AIBU that this is absolutely not bullying?

Based on all you’ve said and seen your dd sounds lovely, the ‘friend’ jealous, and her mother unhinged! Your responses have been really good, now I think you need to focus on supporting your dd - I’m glad she has other friends but accusations of bullying someone she has really cared about will no doubt be very painful, and she must be frightened by all the threats to tell the school. And she’s facing the loss of an old friend. Poor girl :(

So what is she actually saying, that if your DD doesn't spend time with her DD she's going to report your DD for bullying? Erm, isn't that bullying?I'd be tempted with one last reply along the lines of your DD having a shared hobby with other people is not bullying and perhaps encourage her own daughter to be a little more resilient and find her own friends rather than relying on your DD to be her emotional support dog. P.S. please grow up.

Yes.i x posted with the op's reply

'I don't think it's helpful for parents to get involved in this sort of thing. Yes, I'd suggest you speak to the school about it.'

I'd strongly advise NOT asking for examples. Just refer her to the school. If she comes back say 'DD has lots of friends, I can't keep up with it all.' And drop it. Do not suggest your dd owes this child a 'friend'.

The girl sounds manipulative, and her mum not much better.

In case she does go to the school in September, they may do a quick check just to see all’s ok (especially if the mum presents it in this dramatic crying every night way), the screenshots from the other girl, write down (just for you, to not forget), the activities your DD half forced herself to have with her to be nice and also the conversations she had with you about how to handle her to not hurt her feelings. Explain the different hobbies, which is pretty self explanatory.

Then I’d turn it right back around to other mum : tell school your DD has been made to feel very uncomfortable at times during the summer by the other child. And tell DD you’ll explain this, but nicely and rationally (unlike mum B), so that she doesn’t worry about being labeled in any way. Conclude that while you think it is best for children this age to learn to handle normal friendships evolvements, you feel it may be best for them to not be together too much for a while. Something like that ? Basically just reassure your DD that you’ll handle any questions in a calm and respectful manner and any reasonable person will understand, so not to worry.

I’d be inclined to think if my kid was crying every night, and mum is clearly not a shy type, doing nothing all summer sending threatening messages just before school starts is a form of vengeance from the mum for the agressive tactics she probably taught her poor kid not having succeeded, but without any basis it seems. Feel sorry for the girl.

Hopefully the mum won’t post the whole drama on the class WhatsApp at the start of school, she sounds unaware of how she sounds, especially as you say most of the girls are going, she’ll ostracise her poor kid.

This is a good learning opportunity for a couple of calm discussions with your DD about friendships evolving at her age.

This is all assuming there has been no covert bullying, and I would also sit your DD down one last time to have a serious chat, that you trust her but everyone makes mistakes, and if she made one you will help her handle it appropriately, but for that you need to know.

I’d perhaps check with the other girls too. Could it be the case another one of the others in the group have sent messages but your daughter has taken the brunt of it because she knows her best and her mum has your number? Could anything of been deleted?

TBF when I was a similar age my group of ‘friends’ left me out for a whole summer. I was devastated. Although not classic bullying it feels awful at the time. Your daughter owes her nothing, but it must be incredibly difficult to watch your child go through all the emotions of being excluded from a group.

We see enough threads on here with people who are excluded from office meals/school mum meet ups. It upsets grown adults.

The text messages do seem aimed at the DD specifically, and mum seemed to not have much to say, but I agree on principle, except I would ask the DD only, she would be likely to know if the other girls don’t like her friend at least, which would be a start. Otherwise OP is getting herself involved in the drama, while she might be better off taking the high road. At the end of the day, her responsibility is to her DD, including handling bullying, but in a way that protects her DDs interests (in my eyes), as she’s too young to navigate it alone, and no one else will do it for her.

Just re read the OP, it does mention the other girl doesn’t get along with some of the other girls in the group. There’s a gap with bullying though, the girls can not want to hang around with someone they don’t get along with. It sounds like OPs daughter has made the effort but separately though, at the end of the day she wasn’t going to force others to invite someone to a sleepover that they don’t get along with, separation of friendships was probably the best approach. And OPs DD does not have to take responsibility for the other girls, if it comes out they were unkind, I’d say as long as her DD didn’t participate it’s not OPs problem other people’s children’s drama.
But she can ask her DD in confidence as it’s best to be aware.

The mum does seem rather precious. Her DD isn't owed a friend.

She sounds socially unaware, hopefully she doesn’t join any WhatsApps or her poor kid’s friendships will not be helped. Although she sounds more like the type to create it and start off with her woes.

Of course she’s upset her DD is sad, but sounding like that batshit mum won’t help her navigate friendships.

Completely agree. She's making her own child's life very difficult. Far better to teach her to be a bit more resilient and not view other people having lives of their own as a personal attack on her, ie nurturing a victim mentality. All seems a bit manipulative.

Well, I have an update. I didn't hear anything back from the mum, but I have had a couple of messages this morning from other mums in the class asking what is going on between DD and this girl. Apparently the mum has been texting everyone else to make them aware of the issues between the girls, and how she is at her wits end and feels like she has no other option but to go to the school. One of the mums asked her what exactly had happened, and she just said she didn't want to go into details but DD had ruined her DD's confidence and betrayed her friendship. Most of the parents know what she is like so are taking it with a pinch of salt, but I am so cross that she is badmouthing DD and trying to bring everyone else the drama now too.

Much as I would love a massive showdown to put her in her place, I'm just going to let it go and see how it all plays out. The more I think about it, the less I think DD has done anything wrong. I don't even think that her DD could claim to have been left out, as she was never more than a peripheral part of this friendship group. She has completely fallen out with one of the stronger characters a few years ago, and the mum has told me on several occasions that her DD doesn't get on with one of the other girls, so its not like they used to be one big group that she has been kicked out of. DD had tried a few mixed events and they didn't end well so keeping the friendships separate seems like the best thing to do.

Your dd is absolutely not bullying this girl. The other girl does not need to be involved in every single social thing your dd does. I think you have handled this well. You might need to speak to the school for your dd, just a casual word to let them know there's been issues between the girls.

So your dd does a hobby that this girl doesn't do? If it's something like dance/gymnastics where the better you get, the more hours you do, then what is your dd meant to do? Drop the hobby? I don't think so!

The girl's mum is the bully here, not your dd, for being unreasonable and frankly manipulative.

The mother is now bullying your child so I would be actively encouraging your DD to avoid the child. The mother is not looking to calm the situation down and get it sorted.
I would have a good chat with DD to make sure that DD's friendship group were not up to anything as a group, explain that if anything no matter how small was going on you need to know.
The children can create drama on their own at that age and its up to the adults to reasonable.

I agree with just letting her get on with it. People are usually pretty good at sussing out who is the overdramatic parent/the shit stirrer/the serial complainer/the pushover etc. The fact she "wouldn't go into details" explains a lot.
Most people won't really be interested in a minor kids fall out anyway. They are too busy living their own lives. I bet most won't remember its even happened by the time school starts.
I'd save all the messages, block her number and see what happens at school. I'd bet absolutely nothing.

Recently had this with my dd. A girl in her class said she was bullying her because they don't have anything in common. Let her tell the school and the fight her corner of and when you need to. Def not bullying.

Cringing for the other mother. What a prat - she is going to massively regret this. Most girls go through 2 or 3 friendship group permutations before finding their tribe in year 8/9. It’s shifting sands and they have to manage it themselves not have clod hopping mummy bustling in at every opportunity. Actually anecdotally also know some teacher mums who are real weirdos.

I agree with everyone else that it does not sound anything like bullying. In fact, the mum spreading rumours about your dd is bullying. However, while I wouldn't worry about it overly, I would prepare to go to the school with an explanation. I would make a timeline of events over summer (ie including holidays, attendance at hobby, times when your DD saw her toxic friend, times she saw the other friends) and print off the message between your DD and her friend to show the school. The problem with someone crazy making complaints is that 9 times out of 10 they won't be believed ... I think that it is wise to be proactive about being prepared to argue your case if you have the bad luck to be complained about on the other 1 time...

What a horrible woman! As upsetting as it is, all she’s doing is making an arse out of herself badmouthing a child.

Let her report your DD to the school. She’s not the first overbearing mum that they’ve had to deal with. They’ll tell her that they take her concerns ‘very seriously’ then will roll their eyes and have a chuckle behind her back.

The most the school will do is separate your DDs (which will be a blessing). She’s honestly not doing her DD any favours behaving like this.

Shot herself properly in the foot hasnt she?! You don’t usually make people be your friend by shouting at them and threatening to report them to the authorities 😀