Children on train seats!

[gg45]

It drives me mad when I see children over c6 yrs old not offering train seats to adults (esp older adults) standing in aisles on commuter trains (I have no problem with longer journeys when people have booked seats- but several commuter options you can't). When I was brought up we were expected to stand for elders. What is wrong with the world? AIBU??

My DS 13 has dyspraxia, you'd never know to look at him but he can fall over fresh air and has had to go to A&E a staggering amount of times for accidents caused by his dyspraxia. I'd much rather he remains seated until a vehicle has stopped, he's already gone flying on a bus once. You can't assume that just because someone is young that they are in full health and don't have a disability, kind of ageist.

And I see children falling over way more than I ever see adults falling on my daily commute.

They literally are.

How do you know children don’t need the seat? How do you know they don’t have hidden disabilities, as many posters on here have pointed out? Manners work both ways.

So is centre of gravity really an argument?
I mean, I'm 5 foot 2 so smaller than most people. But I'm also 30.
Between me and a tall 20 year old, who gets the seat? Me for being older or them for being taller?

havent taught my dc that adults are more important than they are. I taught them manners from a young age so now they are grown up thankfully they are not entitled adults.

My teens are generally considered to be polite and good mannered - people often seem to feel need to comment on it - and I had them sat at this age and would stand instead as it was easier for us.

Now they'd often offer if they saw someone struggling. So not sure insisting young kids give up seats is this great important thing to do else they'll grow up entitled.

Incidentally I don't think this is an age thing as my DP and IL and many of their friends in 60s and early 70s would sit our and other kids down - rather than themselves on buses and trains till the kids were much older than 6.

I wonder if (in general) the sort of people who had to stand for adults as children are now the sort of adults who think they're entitled to a seat just because they're over 18. They didn't learn empathy, just adult entitlement.

I stand on crowded public transport so my DC can sit. Sometimes DC2 (4) sits on my lap, sometimes they squish together in one seat

Train and bus designs have changed would be why. Fewer hard narrow rails to grab onto with smaller hands. Overhead racks are higher and narrower making them less accessible as a grab option for me as an adult average height woman. No more dangling knob thingys on London transport making the overhead options largely men only so everyone who isn't about 5'8 has to crowd around the vertical bars in the entry ways, many of which have plastic screens built in to around my chest height (so are a stretch for younger children to reach).

Also if you weigh less you get knocked around more by heavier people. If I bump into my 5 year old he will get knocked over and could be hurt if I end up on top of him. If he bumps into me I'm much more likely to stay upright because I weigh 3 times as much. Same goes for 8 year old - at 23 kg she's probably around 1/4 of the weight of an adult male commuter. If there's a jolt and the adult male lands on top of her with a pointy bit of briefcase or knee, she's going to get badly hurt!

The newer London Overground and Elizabeth Line trains are designed on the assumption most will be standing and have way more holding points than the older Thameslink trains (and the ScotRail commuter links to/between Edinburgh and Glasgow)

Exactly.

if we want to teach young people about respect then we need to lead by example and show them respect.

respect works both ways.

I don’t mind children sitting at all, it’s when people put their bags on an adjoining seat my piss gets boiled.

to think about others comfort before their own and that they are not the centre of the universe.

OP this is a massive generalisation on your part. My kids are taught this at home but are under no obligation to demonstrate that to a stranger by giving up their paid for seat on a train.

They are indeed likely to but i have to ask, why are children the target of your post? Do you not need to know that the other adults in your carriage also have good manners and are not self centred because they could also demonstrate this by offering up their seat to elders? I suspect you don’t like young people very much.

I wouldn't expect me child to give up their seat to an adult who can stand just as I didn't expect someone to move so I could sit in the priority seats by my DC pram in the train the other day. I sat on the nearest seat and then took the child out of the pram (although I must admit I wondered if the young woman sitting next to the pram would offer to move!)

But you are the entitled one because you feel you should have the seat above someone else who had it first? Why should an able bodied adult be more entitled to a seat? It’s all about taking something from someone less powerful than you. People who are vulnerable should get priority seats but you’re talking about people who are well able to stand, more able than a younger child. And you say over 6 but actually children of 5 and under aren’t entitled to a seat on trains so they are the ones who shouldn’t be taking a seat and should be sat in a buggy or on an adults lap

I pay thousands a year for my child's season ticket. Why does an adult have more right than her to a seat on a commuter train?

If you want a seat then live further out - you may have a longer journey but you'll be guaranteed a seat.

@gg45

YABU. If I had paid for my ticket, and DH's, and my children's tickets, I would not be making my children give up their seat, and STAND for some random adult.

Why does some random adult's 'need' (or desire,) trump that of my children?

Also, how do you know the child does not have some kind of disability? (Or special needs?)

As a pp has said, like some other adults, you see to regard adults as superior to children. You'd have received a short shrift from me if you'd told me to make my children give up their seat for you.

People who are 'elders' as you put it - do not automatically deserve respect purely because they're a few years older. You EARN respect. You don't just get it because you're a generation or two older than someone!

When on a train. My GS who's 5.5, my DS who are 7&8 all share 2 seats if 2 got up to seat an adult that then means 2 kids standing. 8 yeah old and 5.5 yeah old have special needs the 8 year old could probably cope. But the 5.5 year old would not . It would cause am awful melt down. And effect him for a long time after

You dont need a priority seat ig uout child is in pram

*seem to regard adults as superior to children.

I see it as a cultural change for the better. Able bodied adults understanding that they are no more important than a child. Thankfully we have moved away from the Victorian attitude of children being seen but not heard.

Fine as long as they would sit down, and ideally share a seat if they can. Not running riot and taking extra seats 🙃

Lots of people have cheaper tickets if they have purchased a Railcard. There are family rail cards which would reduce the child's seat cheaper than if the parent did not have one, senior railcards for over 60's, a student Railcard and a card for 2 people travelling together. I don't know anyone who gets free travel with the exception of the people who's job is working on the trains. The general principle is adults pay full fares and children don't. For that reason an adult should get a seat above a child. As I said 2 DC could share a seat or 1 dchild sitting on their parents lap.

No they are more likely to give up a seat. My dc will givr up a seat if they see someone who needs it more. Teaching your child they are entitled to a seat certainly doesnt teach them empathy.
Children are getting more and more self centred nowadays parenting rely isnt improving .

This VERY much depends on the circumstances. If I've booked & paid for a seat for my 16yr old then why should he have to give it up? The only time I'd make that happen would be for someone clearly elderly, infirm, uncomfortably pregnant, etc. Other than that, no.

Certainly wouldn't have done when he was younger either - small kids, even age 6+, get squashed & knocked etc standing on a busy train. I would put a very young child on my lap but that would be it.

It drives me mad that you feel entitled to a seat that is likely reserved for someone else, child or adult.

Thank god for first class so I don’t have to deal with numpties like you.

I saw a post on Facebook yesterday where a cat was sitting on a busy commuter train and everyone just let it have the seat.

Surely a more interesting thread would be whether the cat should have been made to stand to allow a human to sit? 🤔

My view is not, it’s probably impossible to make a cat move anyway.