Climate change and not having kids

[Appleofmyeye2023]

Not really AIBU, more chat and getting insight

DS up visiting this weekend. Aged 29 , living with partner in London and can’t afford to buy yet. So, really not ready to think about marriage or babies etc

but, we got chatting and it came up that his partner was opposed to having kids , and he was a bit, because it would be cruel and horrendous for them, that by the time those kids got to their 50s and 60s the world would be so effected by climate change that it would be at war for precious resources, thousands of people dying, and mass migration to find a way to survive .

im of the view, that yep, while things will get a lot tougher, humans have a capacity to make changes and adapt - technology will develop to meet those challenges, but all the time there isn’t a literal burning platform in developed countries, there won’t be the pressure and will politically to throw resources to really solve the issue- we’re playing around with the low hanging fruit currently, but things have to get a lot worse before there is a collective and money to really tackle climate change. So, I’m a bit more optimistic on this one. It seems so sad for that generation to be so “we’re doomed” to stop having children?

I am wondering, how common is this amongst the late 20s and early 30s generation? Or is this a bit extreme?

Should say they are both pretty intelligent and DS’s partner works in field of sustainability in developing countries, has lived all over the world, she’s not British by birth, and is not a conspiracy theorist !

You weren't asking me. I was just jeering from the sidelines.

It was @LifeExperience that you fingered as the witch.

Check out the climate impact of a child vs flying, driving, eating meat etc before go down that road.

https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children

Threat to what?

Whales? Lions? Polar Bears? Spiders? Lizards? Elephants?

Oh, humans.

Why is it sad? It's a perfectly acceptable reason if it is theirs. And you are judging it by sugestion it's not (vs money). What other reasons are ok and not ok to you?

This is an interesting attitude - the idea that animals have value but humans don't.

Is it the secular equivalent of the belief in original sin?

Right after we had dd, who is now a teen, I started to feel some guilt because of climate change. Did we do the right thing knowing what she might face?

she is currently not planning on having children. She is only a teenager and I know that may change. I’ve never shared my fears with her. They had largely dropped from my mind until recently. She arrived at this place independently.

I can’t say I blame her or even that I really want her to have children. The fires in the last few weeks have been building my fear, but the hurricane that hit near Los Angeles is what has terrified me. That isn’t supposed to happen.

You don’t have to believe climate change is going to wipe out humanity. There is a good chance we will adapt, but it will be painful. It is enough to worry that the next few generations will suffer to think twice about having children.

To answer your original question OP (!) I think it’s a fairly extreme view. The 20 somethings I know are concerned about the future of the planet, but it won’t stop them from having their own children. Biological drive will probably take over in most cases.

Interestingly, climate change wasn't something my friends and I ever talked or worried about when we were younger - it wasn't much on our radar. Now I'm in my 40s and the majority of my childhood friends don't have children. I think that's quite odd and I'm not sure why it happened - for the most part it seems they didn't meet the right people but it's unusual for such a high proportion of a particular group not to have children (or partners, most of them are single). In previous generations I suppose a few of them would have had children without really planning it, but with such reliable contraception that doesn't happen, it has to be a much more conscious choice which seems to be a barrier in some cases.

Some humans have value, most don’t.

I'm 41 and childfree, primarily because of the climate crisis. I work in an environmental role, so am hyper exposed to the risk and reality. Can only speak for myself but for those of you who don't believe that people don't have kids because of the environment, you're just wrong! I love babies, have a secure long term relationship and we're both high earners. We'd be good parents. Just can't convince myself that a) this earth needs another resource guzzling westerner and b) it's ok to give birth knowing the child would likely experience horrifying heat, extreme weather events through their life and witness if not experience nature collapse, global food and water shortages etc. Partner and I went round in circles trying to convince ourselves with all the arguments above such tech will save us, it's only one more person, there's always something to worry about but in the end, couldn't do it. Respect to all the parents out there who can make peace with it. I sometimes wish I could too.

I'm wanging on about this topic, partly because I'm avoiding writing something for work and partly because it really interests me. One thing I find curious is the idea that if a child will have a difficult life, they shouldn't exist. I don't know if that attitude existed in previous generations or maybe it was irrelevant as you had so little choice in the matter? My gran had nine children (too many) in very hard circumstances. She had no reason to believe they'd have good lives but they all very much did and now she's in her 90s living the life of reilly with tonnes of support and help from hoardes of family. Equally families I know who had everything going for them lost children young to illnesses and accidents - it's just so hard to predict.

Each to their own and everything but I find this attitude quite scarily cold.

@Helpfulperson123

What are you on about? 😂😂😂😂

I come at it from the point of view that everything could be perfect and things could still go wrong. I didn't grow up with the direct effects of climate change but many people around me had a very hard time and in many ways so did I for various reasons. I'm still glad to be around and have had a crack at life. If a flood kills me and my family tomorrow, our lives will still have been worthwhile and I'll still be very glad we existed. I don't want that to happen but not having the life we have had for fear of it happening seems a waste in my eyes.

Sorry that last sentence makes no sense - it should say 'I don't want the flood to happen but stopping myself from living a life I want for fear it'll go wrong is a waste in my eyes.'

I think that attitude comes partly from the fact that my cousin and a friend died very young and my sister almost died at birth. There are just no guarantees for anything, IMO and holding back and being careful doesn't prevent suffering.

I agree with this. I remember being young and saying that I will never have my own children as it's selfish and I will adopt! I look back and I was totally virtue signalling. As you live you learn and see the bigger picture

Don't you think there's something very cautious and careful about the current generation of young adults though? They want to plan everything and for everything to be perfect. Which is good up to a point but it seems a bit debilitating at times. Like the argument that people can't afford children - I had my first when I hadn't a bean to my name. I just had to make it work somehow and I did. I think a lot of young people would find that very irresponsible?

@FoxCorner I don't think the OP said that her daughter in law shouldn't fly to see her parents. I think she just acknowledged the hypocrisy of her argument.

I love children, and I always wanted to be a Mum. Thankfully, I now have two children.

I loved the idea of having grandchildren at some point in the future, but my feelings have changed dramatically in recent years, as I fear for the life they would have with the decline of our planet.

It’s interesting because I take a different view @BallaiLuimni. It’s a more extreme example but I was born to parents who had no business parenting - they were traumatised, emotionally dysregulated abusive addicts.

I would’ve been just fine not existing. I don’t particularly enjoy life and I see very little worthy in it. If there was a guaranteed painless method of offing myself I’d absolutely do it.

For that reason, I’ve never had much truck with the argument that it’s better to exist than not exist, even if it’s not “ideal”. Clearly there’s a cut off - things needn’t be perfect. But I do not believe that people have a right to be born.

Look , it’s not difficult. ALL theirs or anyone reasons are ok. Not my money or my circus.
But it makes me sad to think they’re so scared of the future. And my question was is this normal for that generation or a bit extreme

Not DIL
theyre not married. Still relatively youngish for that these days

Monkey not money