Climate change and not having kids

[Appleofmyeye2023]

Not really AIBU, more chat and getting insight

DS up visiting this weekend. Aged 29 , living with partner in London and can’t afford to buy yet. So, really not ready to think about marriage or babies etc

but, we got chatting and it came up that his partner was opposed to having kids , and he was a bit, because it would be cruel and horrendous for them, that by the time those kids got to their 50s and 60s the world would be so effected by climate change that it would be at war for precious resources, thousands of people dying, and mass migration to find a way to survive .

im of the view, that yep, while things will get a lot tougher, humans have a capacity to make changes and adapt - technology will develop to meet those challenges, but all the time there isn’t a literal burning platform in developed countries, there won’t be the pressure and will politically to throw resources to really solve the issue- we’re playing around with the low hanging fruit currently, but things have to get a lot worse before there is a collective and money to really tackle climate change. So, I’m a bit more optimistic on this one. It seems so sad for that generation to be so “we’re doomed” to stop having children?

I am wondering, how common is this amongst the late 20s and early 30s generation? Or is this a bit extreme?

Should say they are both pretty intelligent and DS’s partner works in field of sustainability in developing countries, has lived all over the world, she’s not British by birth, and is not a conspiracy theorist !

It amazes me that this seems to have passed so many people by.

There are hundreds of articles (not all negative btw, which puts me in my place in terms of doom mongering) but this is an interesting starter about Japan: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/26/japan-population-how-many-people-drops-first-time-births-deaths

The Japanese PM called it a crisis and said: "Our nation is on the cusp of whether it can maintain its societal functions.”

I did laugh at the detail that the majority of gangsters are now over 50!

For things like aged care, we will also just have to adapt to what is available though. This might mean life expectancy drops. It might also mean those with the resources can purchase more of the help that is available (which is the darker side of this kind of scenario).

I suppose we do see more places giving increased incentives to have children now. There may be resource wars in future (there have always been wars of one kind or other though).

I don't concern myself with it overly. I've done my bit. What will be now will be.

One thing is for definite - a lot of countries will have to get the hell over their nonsense problems with immigration. There will be a fight for young people - fit, educated people in their 20s will be offered all sorts of incentives to move to various countries. That could be a positive for some but is obviously bad for the countries that get drained.

I agree with them. Sensible choices. The future is looking utterly depressing. Our only hope for the future of the planet's ecosystems is to have far fewer people on it.

True about immigration. I think you're maybe more certain the worst is going to occur than many. I don't think many are thinking that far ahead and are still focused on problem solving and trying to avoid the worst, rather than adapting as if it's a given.

Historically those in power could have looked at population levels and went "oh, hold on a minute, the world population has doubled in just 30 years, that's not going to be sustainable, better start planning on how to manage this". But they didn't.

Today those in power could look at why people are choosing not to have children and take action to address the underlying issues. We know that the biggest reasons cited by younger generations for not having children include climate change, job insecurity, housing insecurity, and wealth inequality.

If you want younger people to have children to support a managed population decline you need to show them that you are actually taking their concerns seriously and stop resiting change.

An example I've used previously relates to pensions. We know categorically that the triple lock is unsustainable, economists have said that if it remains in place those of us under 40 will need to work till we're 74 to support it (and may not even recieve it ourselves). If you were to poll current pensions on whether they'd be willing to give up the triple lock now, to help younger generations out, what do you think the response would be?

The worst in terms of population decline? The worst may not happen at all but the decline is already happening, so it will have an effect of some sort. It might not be huge but it'll be something - for example, if we needed 50,000 babies to be born in UK from Jan - June 2023 so there'll be enough 18 year olds to keep things going in 2041 but we only had 20,000 (totally fictional and wrong numbers!) then the chance to fix that has already passed. Population is always complicated by the fact that in order to get an adult you have to start 20 years ago!

I totally agree with you that the decisions often make zero sense - Brexit being a huge example of that. It's what we tend to be like as humans.

I’ve not even voiced any opinion in response to his comment. let alone “imposed” my view. I’m not even sure it’s a concern as such, as there are many reasons people decide not to, or can’t, have children. I’ve never counted on grandchildren. I have other family members that didn’t have children for a variety of reasons.
i think I’m more saddened and surprised that it is this reason that would stop her having children. It’s more sadness that this is the catastrophic thinking of that generation.

An example I've used previously relates to pensions. We know categorically that the triple lock is unsustainable, economists have said that if it remains in place those of us under 40 will need to work till we're 74 to support it (and may not even recieve it ourselves). If you were to poll current pensions on whether they'd be willing to give up the triple lock now, to help younger generations out, what do you think the response would be?

This, with bells on. Even if a political party had some answers and ran a campaign on them, a combo of our FPTP electoral system and the imbalance of voting demographics would mean they’d never get elected. Voting in self-interest has made the UK ungovernable.

How the fuck you change that, I don’t know. Wait until the tide turns demographically and hope that it’s not too late to reverse it?

(Before I get the inevitable shrieks of ageism, I’m talking about the demographic, not individual voters. I know not all boomers are Tories, I’m not dense.)

Ok, should be clear, she wasn’t here. Just my ds visiting. So he said in course of another random conversation. It wasn’t me asking . We were actually just talking about house buying and that they are stuck in 1 bed renting. He volunteered it re future needs for bedrooms.
i think it’s safe to assume that

1. she’s discussed with him true feelings on wanting to have kids or not
2. theyre a bit too young still , only just 29, to be actively trying for kids- so any issues re that they’d not know at this stage anyway

It is such a pathetic excuse. Just admit you don’t want kids rather than blame it on climate change.

One thing I've seen happen is that a group of friends all decide that having children isn't a good idea - because of cost, climate change, whatever - and sort of form their identity around that and say they'll support each other etc. And then suddenly two or three of the group say oops I'm having a baby, leaving one or more of the others high and dry.

My only concern around people deciding not to have children is that they are clear on the reasons and they really feel, in their heart, it's the right choice - it is bloody heartbreaking to sit with someone who has missed their chance due to dithering or influence or some other fixable reason and is now devastated. I have a couple of friends who have gone the sperm donor route and are solo mothers because of this sort of situation. While it's fab they've made it happen it is by no means the easier option and it's frustrating to see people left with no other choice because they couldn't make a clear decision earlier.

Climate change is as good a reason as any not to have children, if it's a genuine reason and not a get-out from making a scary decision that eventually gets taken out of your hands.

Yep, I saw someone earlier talk about threat of nuclear war.
I was born in 1963, right before Cuba. My mum talked about how they really thought the world was about to be blown up. Yet they went on to have another child, she must have been pregnant at or just after that crisis.

there has always been a “sky will fall on our head” in every generation. But this seems different to result in such a shift towards having children and overcome, what for many is a very hard wired instinct to reproduce.

admittidly, the evidence does point to climate change being a pretty big threat. But I’m also a scientist and worked in research, and know that until there’s a threatening and immediate burning platform affecting the rich nations, , governments won’t provide money, and if it’s not economically viable without that support, developent, real development to carbon neutral won’t happen on a large enough scale. Things will have to get worse, before that happens 🤯

🤷🏼‍♀️🤦‍♀️I’m not judging..im not going to d hate it, discuss it, or comment on it with them. Absolutely their business .
my question was simply how common is this? And it seems sad that if it is common, this is how young people are thinking

People can choose not to have kids for any reason they want. Why do you think you get to decide what reasons people are allowed to give for not having kids? Very weird thing to be annoyed about.

This. They are allowed to have or not have children and they can do it for whatever reason. Perhaps it is easier for her to say that it's because of climate change than to say they are noisy,messy ,tying, career destroying etc.

I remember this from the 70s--that the world was so awful some people didn't want to bring children into it. Back then it was because we were going into another ice age and were all going to freeze to death in the dark.

I think since the advent of effective birth control some have used the latest media scaremongering to justify their decision not to have children, when in fact no justification is needed.

I'm early 30s and have three children. I would happily have more but for us the decision is about quality of life and being able to enjoy multiple holidays etc. without the expense of more children. To not have children purely because of climate change is stupid imo. Every generation has had its problems, political unrest, risk of World War 3, thinking the world will end in the next 50 years but it hasn't. Life will almost certainly be much the same for my children as it is now. I presume if they are that worried about climate change they are both vegans, don't drive a car, grow their own food, and don't have any foreign holidays?

This is a good point, as they do Fly 🤣. In fairness she’d not be able to visit her parents and other relatives if she didn’t fly once or twice a year 🤷🏼‍♀️

But this is is an extremely good point,

especially as I haven’t flown in over7 years now so can feel absurdLy smug

I may counter future debates on global warming with this point with said DS 🤣🤣🤣

It's not a good point. She doesn't need to give up seeing her parents as she's not going to have kids or grandkids to suffer the consequences of climate change.

So climate change is media scaremongering to you? You're a climate change denier?

Ooh 'climate change denier' - the modern day equivalent of heretic!

You are then. Ok