Modest fashion

[Darthwazette]

AIBU to dislike the term “modest fashion” when referring to Islamic dressing?

A spa local to me is doing a social media thing about welcoming all, including people who chose modest fashion, featuring two Muslim women, in fully covering swimsuits including head covering.

It feels like, by contrast, I’m being called immodest for dressings in a swim suit?

@Pollyputhekettleon wow-referencing Lucy Letby's a deeply offensive stretch.

There is no suggestion that anyone HAS to wear modest clothing to this spa. Just that women who, for whatever reason feel they have to, can. So they can swim.

The op started a thread about disliking a word that is used about womens and girls clothing because of its implications. She didn't start a thread about how she thinks indian women in saris are judging her.

Oh for god's sake some of you are so easily triggered. I'll choose a nicey nice example next time.

@Myfavouritepenguin "
However, if you were, for example, to say to a friend who offered to lend you a swimsuit, “No thanks- I’d feel uncomfortable in that because it’s not modest enough for me - though obviously fine for you”, I think your friend might justifiably feel offended, yes."

why? Isn't a more normal response " Hmm-I've got a T shirt and leggings here. Will they do?"

It’s not the wearing of the clothes it’s the teens used to describe them ffs

Yes. But the discussion has moved on, hasn't it?

What you wear and how you think of it should not offend anyone, of course.

However, if you were, for example, to say to a friend who offered to lend you a swimsuit, “No thanks- I’d feel uncomfortable in that because it’s not modest enough for me - though obviously fine for you”, I think your friend might justifiably feel offended, yes.
The friend would be looking to seek offence in my opinion if they were offended

Common sense says that if I've got a religious friend and part of their religion is an idea about dress being modest that's because under their faith, they feel commanded to dress that way. It's a modesty standard for the people who choose to live that faith. It's often about more than the item of clothing and links to other spiritual disciplines and beliefs.

As someone outside of that faith, those standards don't apply to me. If I offer them a swimsuit and it doesn't meet their religious requirements then that's not a judgement on me. It's a statement of fact that it isn't modest enough for them.

Ok. Who is it that you think has made the point that women in saris must be judging women who don't wear them then?

The problem with you op, and anyone who agrees, is your own bias. You perceive Muslims as intolerant and judgemental.

Them calling their own fashion modest (eg a woman styling a hijab with her workwear) has nothing to do with you and your morals. Nobody gives a shit.

It doesn't make you immodest, but arrogant to think anyone gives you that much thought

I dress both modestly and less modestly depending on the occasion and weather.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? What if the pp did say the thing about the modesty/ lack of modesty? If these are fair terms to use to describe clothes then where’s the harm in using those terms among friends?

I didn't 'reference' Lucy Letby.

You made an incredibly facetious argument that: 'But is immodest a value judgement? And even if it is, why does it matter? People have different perceptions and values.'

In other words, you're claiming that it doesn't matter that people have different perceptions and values. It obviously does. Women being judged as immodest is not some harmless little personal quirk. Women have been targeted for sexual assault, rape and little girls are abused because of a perception that they're wearing clothing that is 'too sexy'. In other words, that is immodest. We've had centuries of this.

So I'll use whatever example I like to demonstrate the ridiculousness of your statement.

'used to describe something, such as a woman's clothes or behaviour, that is intended to avoid* attracting sexual interest:'*

MODEST | English meaning - Cambridge Dictionary

@Myfavouritepenguin OK the term is problematic. In which case why are posters saying- and I am on my phone so can't scroll back to see which poster- " women who wear modesty clothing judge you".. That's not just about the term is it? It's about the clothing. And the women who wear such clothing.

Modest is a perfectly simple term where you know it's not going to have massive cutouts, a neckline down to your diaphragm, the complete absence of a back, a 'knee length' where the knees are apparently 4 inches from your arse cheeks, be transparent and might actually have some room around the waist.

Full coverage would also include a long sleeved compression shirt and leggings, which is hardly the intent behind the term.

Well put @NeverDropYourMooncup

How do those arguing the term modest is fine for women's clothes feel about little girls cycling shorts to be worn under school skirts being called Modesty Shorts? I'm not keen. https://www.listers-schoolwear.co.uk/products/listers-schoolwear-girls-dance-modesty-shorts-100-cotton-breathable-and-safety-dress-short-kids-stretchy-dancing-bike-pants-for-girl-size-4-13-years

And why is it only women and girls' clothes that get called Modest?

The problem is that you're pretending that those religious rules have nothing to do with sex, with placing responsibility on women to avoid attracting the sexual interest of men, with considering it to be immoral to dress in a way likely to attract men's sexual interest. You're also pretending that women and girls are not frequently blamed for their own rapes, sexual harassment etc. because of their choice of 'immodest' clothing.

used to describe something, such as a woman's clothes or behaviour, that is intended to avoid* attracting sexual interest:*

@Calibrachoa I think I would prefer them to be called shorts. But it doesn't bother me so much in swimwear. Or on Asos. Probably illogical.
It's not the OPs original post that bothered me. Its the posts that followed which are weird...

So women shouldn't be allowed to discuss a word that they find problematic then? Why?

Calibrachoa
I'm not keen, but then I'm also not keen on girls feeling like they have to wear shorts under dresses in general. I also dislike how much girl clothing is sexualised in general compared to boys. Children's clothing is a whole new topic.

If an adult chooses to frame their own clothing choices based on their personal beliefs about modesty then I'm not about to jump to take offence because common sense says they're expressing their own view of their own dress requirements and convictions. If shops want to highlight that their clothing is modest then fine as it allows the women who want to find the clothes they need without having to wade through skin tight unitards, maxi skirts with huge slits.

Then alongside that I'd say there's a bigger discussion about women's clothing in general, the idea that covering up is viewed by many as oppressive but showing flesh (often in a male gaze way) is branded empowerment. That people consider it wrong for a woman to talk of her clothing in terms of modesty, whilst conveniently turning a blind eye to all the problematic sexualised influences in a lot of fashion and beauty for mainstream women's style.

Men also have modest clothing

'Conservative clothing" Maybe it should be changed to that. Sometimes I would like to be able to find that. But then all the clothing these days is conservative with the Little House on the Prairie trend.

So women shouldn't be allowed to discuss a word that they find problematic then? Why?

So women can't refer to their own style of dress as modest without others thinking they're secretly hateful/judgemental towards them? Why?

If the term annoys you personally fine. But I hate this idea that you don't like it so now other people have to change their speech. Now they have to be

Full coverage
Islamic
Conservative

Rather than choose how they want to refer to their own selves! None ya business!

The problem here is that everyone thinks it's only modest or immodeat.
It's not black and white, like anything in life really

If you Google Modest Clothing and click on Images and scroll down. You'll be scrolling for a very long time to find a photo of a man. In fact I gave up scrolling before I got to one, it's that rare.

It's more how clothes are being marketed to women and girls that people are uncomfortable with, and it's OK to have that opinion.