Men in Comedy and Transgender People

[TroglodytesTroglodytes]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66534454

Just been reading about Graham Linehan getting cancelled due to his opinions in the trans debate. At work, I listen to podcasts everyday day and a lot of these are UK or USA comedy podcast. It strikes me that so many of these comedians have an almost obsessive interest in the subject and bring it into every interview. I enjoy listening to these and I love GL’s work like Father Ted. I just don’t understand why these (mostly men) see it as such a main issue and keep going on about it. IRL I see the odd trans person and there are a couple of non-binary students that are at my children’s school. I may have had a discussion with people about trans a few times in the past five years. In my experience people have a passing interest but the experience of the people on these podcasts suggests that it is the most important issue. AIBU to think that most people are not bothered if a man wants to be known as she/her and transition? I just wonder why people like GL want to hold this particular issue up as a beacon for free speech.

He’s defending women’s rights. It is not as simple as a man wanting to be known as “she/her”. It is men demanding access to female only spaces, compete in female sports and other events, insisting on women being called “person with cervix” or “non-male”. It is also teenage girls wearing breast binders, children being encouraged to go through gender reassignment surgery, homosexuality being seen as transphobic.

I don’t have a problem respecting someone’s chosen pronouns. I do have a major problem with biological males competing against biological females or walking around female changing rooms with their penis out or entering a female-only rape crisis group.

It’s an easy target to get people angry about instead of focusing on actually important issues like cancer waiting times.

It’s to get people caring more about this than things like children’s education and funding. We can scrap funding for the NHS as longer as a political party ‘knows what a woman is’.

IRL no one obsesses over this issue.

Possibly because comedy, farce and absurdism are closely related and it's a huge issue of the day where children are being taught feelings automatically overrule biology in schools, and natal women in sports and many other situations are being pushed down the ladder? Many comedians automatically go after whatever subject is the flavor of the day especially where farce is involved.

Possibly because there's a huge issue getting some police forces to pay attention to physical crime, yet some police forces are very keen to police women's speech? A goldmine for comedy writers.

In some cases possibly something to do with being painfully aware how certain convicted pedophiles (along with rapists) have been using 'new' trans status to hide their convictions, and being accused of libel for stating the truth?

It's neither libel nor slander when it's true, but twisting laws intended to protect trans people from hate crimes allows spurious claims that 'newname' person is being libeled if they're outed as having committed crimes against children under their old name.
I doubt most trans people want to be used in protecting pedophiles anymore than most gay men wanted to be used to protect them in the 70's when PIE attached themselves to gay rights.

I can't stand Father Ted so knew nothing about Graham Linehan until I did some looking deeper, But I can see why he in particular, might be a bit obsessive about that subject...

Most sensible people have little problem with simply 'a man wants to be known as she/her and transition.'

It’s not just about trans people .

There are huge safeguarding issues when previous identities are replaced, particularly when someone has a criminal conviction . Marking ‘misgendering’ and ‘deadnaming’ as hate crimes (which often carry threats of legal action) means that information relevant to safeguarding may be hidden. Police routinely release details of dangerous, clearly male suspects whom they describe as women-how are the public supposed to know who to be wary of?

It’s also a question of women’s rights. The erasure of the female sex class (as any man can simply identify into this category) has a profound impact on the safety of women and girls. Women and girls who need single-sex nursing or intimate care are told to accept men who say they are women. Men who say they are women (including those who have committed crimes against babies and children) are housed in women’s prisons with mother and baby units. Women have been raped and assaulted by male patients on hospital wards, then gaslighted by the hospital about only ‘female’ patients being on the ward.

If the protected characteristic of sex is eliminated, or if protections related to pregnancy and maternity are lost due to accusations of ‘biological essentialism’, women will face huge problems. Women make up over half the population- our rights and safety are not a trivial issue.

Possibly because it attracts listeners.

If you can't understand why many, many women and men are concerned about gender identity ideology why don't you do some reading? Helen Joyce's book is an excellent starter.

I came for prevention of the wholesale destruction of safeguarding and damage to children's bodies and minds, stayed for women's sports, accurate stats, single sex spaces and the attempt to hang onto some semblance of material reality.

The fact is political parties are using it as a way to distract people from important issues.

Personally I care more about reducing NHS waiting times, access to healthcare, the fact that wait times are increasing for cancer care. I care more about my child having access to well funded education.

It’s priorities, and political parties are using the trans debate to distract from actual issues.

He is concerned about women's rights, safeguarding children and material reality. I think those are pretty important issues.

His comedy set does not contain any reference to these issues and yet he has been cancelled for holding some pretty mainstream views. Why are you struggling to understand that he thinks discussion around reforming the GRA is a free speech issue? The man has literally lost his livelihood for daring to have an opinion on it.

There is no mystery here.

@TroglodytesTroglodytes talk to the 12 year old girl who was filmed by the male bodied trans identifying Katie Dawalski(sp) in the female toilets in asda halbeath Dunfermline or the 10 year old girl who dawalski sexually assaulted in the female toilets in Morriston in Kirkcaldy or the women at Leeds women's aid who were housed with dawalski.
Then remember that this is just 1 of many male sex offenders who are using a trans identity to hide their crimes and then ask yourself why we are talking about it

Are you an adult human female OP?

The fact is political parties are using it as a way to distract people from important issues.

No political party had a hand in cancelling this gig, the venue did that in response to pressure from trans activists and then helpfully published a statement giving their reasons which puts them in breach of the EA.

I believe Comedy Unleashed are taking legal advice.

Well said.

I just wonder why people like GL want to hold this particular issue up as a beacon for free speech.

Free speech is fundamental to comedians. Whether we like them or hate them, like playwrights and others, the heart of their job is holding our society up for scrutiny and examining the fault lines. An assault on free speech is an assault on our society, and their role within it.

As we don’t live in China or Iran or other censorship-central country, many Trans Activists pose one of the biggest current threats to free speech. From getting professors sacked , MP’s deselected to silencing people on SM, all for expressing a legally held opinion.

GL seems also to have identified early on a conflict with women’s rights, and having now stuck his head above the parapet (Good for him, IMO) he is constant under fire so constantly engaged in response.

I would fully expect that his planned set in Edinburgh was not obsessive about the Trans issue, but the full range of his comedy output. But we will never know, will we….because censorship.

On Mumsnet it is most definitely a subject of obsession.

He's taken alot of personal risks both emotionally and financially to speak out against something that concerns us all.

If you don't understand the issue I would educate yourself by reading some books by Helen Joyce, Kathleen Stock or Hannah Barnes.

Or if you prefer to listen look up interviews with them on YouTube.

This is about women's rights, it's about safeguarding children and about an ideology which has seeped into every part of our institutions.

It's a regressive and sexist ideology.

I think their awareness and interest in it lies in their reliance on an online presence for their work. Twitter is the hot bed of the culture wars. If you're on it every day you must be drawn into it far more than if you're just a normal person meeting normal people offline leading normal lives.

With free speech, it's the principle that's important.

You may not agree with Linehan, or think the issue is important, but if you stand by him being silenced, you've opened the floodgates to it happening to anyone, on any topic.

A man standing up for women's rights? Doesn't seem like a problem to me, it would be better if more did.

We can't argue that men shouldn't voice an opinion on women's rights (especially an opinion for women) whilst also believing they need to modify their behaviour, for example not follow a woman down a dark alley at night ("follow" as in innocently, the woman happens to be walking the same route, I don't mean actively stalking them which obviously they shouldn't be doing either).

If we want men to support our rights then they should be able to speak out that they do.

It's neither libel nor slander when it's true, but twisting laws intended to protect trans people from hate crimes allows spurious claims that 'newname' person is being libeled if they're outed as having committed crimes against children under their old name.
I doubt most trans people want to be used in protecting pedophiles anymore than most gay men wanted to be used to protect them in the 70's when PIE attached themselves to gay rights.

I posted this earlier up thread.

I have been corrected. For clarity: it remains libelous even when true!
You can be sued for libel for stating someone is a convicted pedophile, and even when not actually naming them, if a conclusion can easily be drawn as to who is being refereed to, then action can be taken against you.

You can mount a defense by proving their claim to be true, but as has been pointed out to me, in this case only if the courts allow evidence from before they changed gender or received a GRA certificate, to be presented.

Or - people are able to concerned about more than one problem, at the same time.

Rabid trans activists are a huge threat to hard fought women's rights. It's just as important as 'cancer waiting times'.

You are asking in the wrong place. MN is transphobia central so he'll be a martyr to them. Anyone standing up for trans rights they would be more than happy to see silenced.

Witness the idea that trans rights are as bad as cancer waiting times. How utterly offensive and irrational 😡

What rights do trans people not have?

It isn't transphobic to stand up for women's rights, including the right to have single sex spaces, sports NHS wards etc.

I think the majority of people had no issue with TW (if they even thought about it) until the massive overreach and demanding to be allowed into female single sex spaces.

Trans people have all the standard rights to not be discriminated against in terms of jobs, housing, benefits etc. They do not have the 'right' to invade opposite sex provision.

If you see transphobia, you should report it. If you think women discussing our existing rights under the Equality Act is transphobia, then you have to concede there’s a conflict of rights which women are entitled to discuss.

OP, now that many MMetters have pointed out the issues and suggested further reading, I do hope you’ll take the time to “educate yourself” (I believe is the saying).