Men in Comedy and Transgender People

[TroglodytesTroglodytes]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66534454

Just been reading about Graham Linehan getting cancelled due to his opinions in the trans debate. At work, I listen to podcasts everyday day and a lot of these are UK or USA comedy podcast. It strikes me that so many of these comedians have an almost obsessive interest in the subject and bring it into every interview. I enjoy listening to these and I love GL’s work like Father Ted. I just don’t understand why these (mostly men) see it as such a main issue and keep going on about it. IRL I see the odd trans person and there are a couple of non-binary students that are at my children’s school. I may have had a discussion with people about trans a few times in the past five years. In my experience people have a passing interest but the experience of the people on these podcasts suggests that it is the most important issue. AIBU to think that most people are not bothered if a man wants to be known as she/her and transition? I just wonder why people like GL want to hold this particular issue up as a beacon for free speech.

Or shining a light on how trans ideology is fucking over women and children.

There's a way to do that civilly and with respect to all parties. As an trans people have been accessing bathrooms, refuges, hospital wards, sports on a case by case basis etc for years and years without issue. This isn't something has suddenly started happening. What Graham is obsessively doing is painting trans people as dangerous, lecherous, pedophiles. He's not trying to raise the voices of women. He's not tweeting about period poverty, or the dangers of porn, or self esteem issues in girls, or celebrating women's achievement in sport etc, or any issues that really are affecting women and girls. He's picked on a group of people and stirred up hatred against them.

How do you know it hasn't caused issues?

Women for years have had to put up with men making them feel uncomfortable and have been conditioned to be second to them and put up and shut up. The type of men who want to ride roughshod into women's spaces, refuges, sports are the exact entitled types that women don't want there, and rightly so. They don't care if women are uncomfortable or not, or don't want to be around them for religious reasons. Their need for validation trumps all.

It's a pity many women are still prioritising the feelings of these entitled males over women (the ones with vaginas). Sooooo inclusive (and depressing).

And you have a cheek to mention women's achievement in sport. Tell that to the swimmers up against Lia Thomas, the cyclist who lost out on a space because of Emily Bridgers etc etc. The list gets bigger and bigger. Take a good look at the people you are defending.

Some women are also scared to speak up, given they might get punched twice and the police will do hee haw about it...

This right here!

there are so many women, and men, fighting against gender ideology. it's not about being trans phobic. It's not about people wanting to pee. We're fighting against subjugation of women.

I learned an interesting fact a few days ago. In the 1800s, long before the suffragette movement, women could vote.
it was some legislation passed in 1832, 1867 and 1884 that removed that right. It came down to language. "Male persons." these two little words stripped the vote from half a million women who had been able to previously vote. we then had to fight to get this right back.
language matters. If sex is removed from protections, then we are not protected.

I haven’t disappeared, just been working.

In answer to questions. Yes, I am female. I have 3 teenagers one of whom is a girl. One of my kids mentioned a student at school (in a school of 2000 students) and I said that’s an unusual name. That is when I found out that this individual had renamed themselves as they were non-binary and another had too. I’ve never met them and am unlikely to do so. I can only think that I live in quite a ‘back dated’ area and that is why it’s a non-issue in real life here (Norfolk), maybe it’s more of a thing in big cities!?

I would say the main comedy podcast that seems obsessed with trans is ‘Triggernometry’. They have some interesting guests on but I’m not sure if they are remotely bothered about women’s rights issues as they make sexist and often ridiculous remarks about single mothers and women’s appearance. I think the obsession is about something other than protecting women’s identities.

I live in a city and it’s a total non issue here too.

I don’t equate questioning trans with caring about women’s rights. People like GL just obsess over it without doing anything to actively help women.

The similarities to the abuse gay people received is disturbing, the perception of all trans individuals being rapists and child abusers is particularly worrying. Pick any sector of society and you’ll find extreme outliers.

OP, you could listen to Helen Joyce. She is very easy to find via google and has done some excellent google videos and written the definitive book, easy to find, it is called Trans.
She explains the harm to women and children from this ideology.

OP you do realise Triggernometry presenters are comedians right? Some of the stuff they say is supposed to offend you.

And JFC no one has a right not to be offended which is the whole reason Glinner has been cancelled.

Personally I find him bloody spot on.

Why should he tweet about period poverty or porn? Why don't you tweet about that?

I agree

i have no idea how someone could read a thread which contains the info about the women’s powerlifting winner being a male and think there are no issues in sport

As a normal person living a normal life I'm surrounded by healthy children being funnelled into lifelong medical interventions. It's too late for at least one of the ones I know.

As an trans people have been accessing bathrooms, refuges, hospital wards, sports on a case by case basis etc for years and yearswithout issue

Oh look, the 'case by case' card.
You know it means a whole scenario or situation and not each individual person right?
So the 'case' would be female students having single sex facilities, which is completely legal and necessary.
Same with women's sports. No males at all because sex cannot be changed.

Males accessing women's spaces has most definitely not been without issue.

I just think it must be exhausting to be that utterly obsessed with a group of people, and put that much energy trying to dig up dirt

Tell that to the TRA's who can't seem to stay away from mumsnet, especially FWR.

Makes me laugh when posters come on to tell women how silly they are being to worry about men in women's spaces, sports etc, not wanting the batshit, quasi religious gender ideology being taught in schools as facts, forced compliance and compelled speech.

You'll only see rabid obsession with the subject here on Mumsnet rather than in real life

Perhaps because this is one of the few spaces where women can still speak freely on the issue without being shut down, despite the efforts of the rabid TRA's.

The similarities to the abuse gay people received is disturbing, the perception of all trans individuals being rapists and child abusers is particularly worrying. Pick any sector of society and you’ll find extreme outliers.

Totally agree. It's all very well going on about 'women's spaces'... which again have been used by trans women forever and a day, only now is it plastered all over the news. I have been a victim of harassment and abuse driven by the anti-gay, section 28 era and it's extremely worrying to me that my trans friends, many of whom are vulnerable, being subjected to this campaign determined to describe them as monsters.

It isn't that all trans people are e.g. rapists.
But they are men . Men are the sex that make the majority of sex offenders and violent offences.
Men do not belong in female single sex spaces.

If trans activists campaigned for 3rd spaces I think they would get a lot of support.
But for some reason they don't - why is that?

Then you get some TW wanting to use their bigger stronger faster male bodies in female sport. Male advantage doesn't disappear just because testosterone is brought down to a level that is low for a man, but still high for a woman.

The old traditional transsexuals have been thrown under a bus by the TRAs.
So have lesbians who are told they are are transphobic for not wanting to date male bodied TW.

the perception of all trans individuals being rapists and child abusers is particularly worrying

Can you point us to who is saying this?

Well I'm a victim of sexual assault at work by the person who was supposed to be my manager. I'm glad that some are speaking up about men being allowed to say they are female and then expect to be treated as one, and to be admitted to female only spaces. The person who assaulted me would have loved being able to access the women's locker room, even more victims. He needed no excuses , but neither should we give them the green light.
I was vulnerable as a woman , a young woman, why should I have to give up my spaces for a man.

While I am hugely concerned about safeguarding issues- which I think everyone would agree need to be ironed out- and general women's rights issues, what I see again and again- and it's upsetting- are very small, anxious looking 'men' with whispy facial hair.

Very young women- most likely gay and/or autistic- are being hustled down a route they cannot reverse.

That's homophobia. That's discrimination. They need to be protected.

Totally agree. It's all very well going on about 'women's spaces'... which again have been used by trans women forever and a day,

But never with consent and now by literally any male who claims to be trans thanks to the efforts of TRAs to widen the stonewall agenda, not confined to a few males with gender dysphoria.

But given that women have never been asked or consented to males in our spaces I presume you just REALLY don't think that women matter as much as men.

Not to mention the overt lesphobia and homophobia of the trans movement which calls lesbians and gay men bigots for refusing to consider relationships with people of the same sex who identify as lesbians or gay men. How a gay person cannot see that this is bigotry is quite beyond me.

Sorry massive typo in my last paragraph, should have said people of the opposite sex but I think you get the drift.

Really, really common amongst our friends' children, to the point that they're running out of daughters. One of those affected as a teenager now has a trans-the-other-way sibling and a non-binary sibling. Hmm.

(We're a techy bunch with the typical nerd levels of neurodiversity, so I'm not saying it's a typical sample, but I do find it rather heartbreaking all the same.)

Someone who was a friend has a 10yr old autistic daughter.
Apparently she'll accept transgirls/transwomen when older playing in her sport, as she's inclusive, and not a bigot like me.

So, mother tells autistic child to put her physical and mental health at risk for boys/men, and thinks its to be celebrated, as is calling other people names.

It's horrific.

It’s hardly surprising that Mumsnet attracts a lot of women who are keen defenders of women’s rights, the site’s core constituency by definition has a crystal clear understanding of biological reality.

I so admire people like Linehan who fight for women’s rights at huge personal cost.

But never with consent and now by literally any male who claims to be trans thanks to the efforts of TRAs to widen the stonewall agenda, not confined to a few males with gender dysphoria.

If by this you mean self-ID, which has not passed here yet, this has been the case in Malta since 2014, Ireland since 2015, Denmark since 2015, New Zealand since 2012, and various other countries since the 2010s/20s. There has not been a sudden invasion or uptick in crime in those countries since then.

But given that women have never been asked or consented to males in our spaces I presume you just REALLY don't think that women matter as much as men.

I'm a woman and I do consent to trans women in women's spaces. You won't get the same answer from 'women' because we aren't a borg. I'm in women's spaces with trans women at least once month and I can tell you that I have never, ever felt threatened. Neither have the hundreds of other not-trans women I attend the events with. So to me, you are the minority opinion. Don't speak for me.

Not to mention the overt lesphobia and homophobia of the trans movement which calls lesbians and gay men bigots for refusing to consider relationships with people of the same sex who identify as lesbians or gay men. How a gay person cannot see that this is bigotry is quite beyond me.

I don't even know where to begin with this. It's pure moral panic. I'm yet to come across any support for this opinion on trans-friendly lesbian subreddits, trans subreddits, any real life trans women I know, or whereever. I have personally rejected a couple of transwoman for a date, without any backlash whatsoever. I suspect thats because I said, no thanks, I'd rather not. Rather than saying, 'ew yuck I'd never date a transwoman'.
I think you'll find that's what people object to. It's not the turning down of anyone for a date/sex, which we are all entitled to do for whatever reason. It's the announcing to the world that you'd never do it because TW are men. There's no need. Its the fact that you'd refuse to call a TW and a natal woman being together a lesbian relationship. It's not up to you to define anyone.