Page 5 | Men in Comedy and Transgender People

TroglodytesTroglodytes · 2023-08-18T08:29:23+00:00

[[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66534454 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66534454]] Just been reading about Graham Linehan getting cancelled due to his opinions in the trans debate. At work, I listen to podcasts everyday day and a lot of these are UK or USA comedy podcast. It strikes me that so many of these comedians have an almost obsessive interest in the subject and bring it into every interview. I enjoy listening to these and I love GL’s work like Father Ted. I just don’t understand why these (mostly men) see it as such a main issue and keep going on about it. IRL I see the odd trans person and there are a couple of non-binary students that are at my children’s school. I may have had a discussion with people about trans a few times in the past five years. In my experience people have a passing interest but the experience of the people on these podcasts suggests that it is the most important issue. AIBU to think that most people are not bothered if a man wants to be known as she/her and transition? I just wonder why people like GL want to hold this particular issue up as a beacon for free speech.

Noicant · 18/08/2023 17:36

Well yes, males in women’s domestic violence shelters, rape crisis meetings, in their sports, their wards, their private places, as their carers and the ability to say “no thanks” is eroded is a bit concerning. Maybe thats why it’s so contentious.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 18/08/2023 17:40

Its the fact that you'd refuse to call a TW and a natal woman being together a lesbian relationship.

Because it's not. It would be a heterosexual relationship. Trying to pass fantasy as fact to appease feelings and validation.

Just because you feel fine having males in women's spaces doesn't mean you get to throw away that right for other women. You sound so naive.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 18/08/2023 17:41

Barbie Kardashian in Ireland has been a massive problem, but isn't allowed to be reported on. Probably common in many self ID countries.

TheKeatingFive · 18/08/2023 17:43

If by this you mean self-ID, which has not passed here yet, this has been the case in Malta since 2014, Ireland since 2015, Denmark since 2015, New Zealand since 2012, and various other countries since the 2010s/20s. There has not been a sudden invasion or uptick in crime in those countries since then.

This is very disingenuous. I'm in Ireland. The situation for women prisoners in our female only prisons has been horrific. But maybe you don't care about those women, hmm?

Ridemeginger · 18/08/2023 17:47

Gosh, why on earth would a set of people whose livelihoods depend on their ability to speak with complete freedom, be obsessed with another group of people whose primary occupation seems to be thought policing and compelling speech?

elgreco · 18/08/2023 17:49

Dangerous men in Irish women's prisons is not moral panic, its proper fucking panic inducing.

lifeturnsonadime · 18/08/2023 17:50

Ladybrrrd · 18/08/2023 17:32

But never with consent and now by literally any male who claims to be trans thanks to the efforts of TRAs to widen the stonewall agenda, not confined to a few males with gender dysphoria.

If by this you mean self-ID, which has not passed here yet, this has been the case in Malta since 2014, Ireland since 2015, Denmark since 2015, New Zealand since 2012, and various other countries since the 2010s/20s. There has not been a sudden invasion or uptick in crime in those countries since then.

But given that women have never been asked or consented to males in our spaces I presume you just REALLY don't think that women matter as much as men.

I'm a woman and I do consent to trans women in women's spaces. You won't get the same answer from 'women' because we aren't a borg. I'm in women's spaces with trans women at least once month and I can tell you that I have never, ever felt threatened. Neither have the hundreds of other not-trans women I attend the events with. So to me, you are the minority opinion. Don't speak for me.

Not to mention the overt lesphobia and homophobia of the trans movement which calls lesbians and gay men bigots for refusing to consider relationships with people of the same sex who identify as lesbians or gay men. How a gay person cannot see that this is bigotry is quite beyond me.

I don't even know where to begin with this. It's pure moral panic. I'm yet to come across any support for this opinion on trans-friendly lesbian subreddits, trans subreddits, any real life trans women I know, or whereever. I have personally rejected a couple of transwoman for a date, without any backlash whatsoever. I suspect thats because I said, no thanks, I'd rather not. Rather than saying, 'ew yuck I'd never date a transwoman'.
I think you'll find that's what people object to. It's not the turning down of anyone for a date/sex, which we are all entitled to do for whatever reason. It's the announcing to the world that you'd never do it because TW are men. There's no need. Its the fact that you'd refuse to call a TW and a natal woman being together a lesbian relationship. It's not up to you to define anyone.

Do you know what, my rights and those of others are not yours to give a way.

It may not bother you but there are countless women and girls who are bothered and whose needs matter more than the identity of males.

Self ID is anti woman in every sense. It's also homophobic. That you can't see it and want to please the boys is baffling.

The fact that other countries have removed women's rights does not make it right either. This is a misogyny on a world wide scale. Crazy you don't see it for exactly what it is. We've ended up with male rapists in women's prisons, women with no access to single sex rape crisis centres, and men competing in women's sports displacing females thanks to attitudes like yours.

It disgusts me that you will always ALWAYS but males first.

lifeturnsonadime · 18/08/2023 17:54

put males first !

TheKeatingFive · 18/08/2023 18:01

I do not understand why women think it's convincing to say 'I don't care about sharing facilities with men'.

You should be acknowledging your privilege, not signing away other women's rights. I have a friend who was violently raped and hugely struggles with strange men in general, let alone in intimate spaces. Why would you get to overrule her consent here?

TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening · 18/08/2023 18:13

Consent is not transferable.

TeenDivided · 18/08/2023 18:14

We have never segregated on the basis on gender.
Up to now it has always been on the basis of sex.

Can @Ladybrrrd explain why we should have to now separate based on this nebulous concept of gender?

I have biology in common with every woman on earth.
What do women have in common with a TW that would mean separating by gender is necessary? (Given I don't identify as a woman, I just am.)

Or is it 'be kind' to TW, and stuff any female who has been attacked or has religious reasons for not wanting to?

SinnerBoy · 18/08/2023 18:15

lightinthebox· Today 14:48

I take issue with stating all trans individuals with being rapists and child abusers.

So do I take issue with it.

Could you please ask the tans extremists to stop repeating that lie and deploying it as a strawman?

loislovesstewie · 18/08/2023 18:39

I take issue with the idea that all men are rapists , I know some very pleasant men, I even have them in my family. I still wouldn't invite them into women's spaces because they are men. NOT because I think any of them is likely to attack a woman.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 18/08/2023 18:46

In the year following self-declaration of sex, the number of women reported for rape increased from a steady 12 pr year, to 41

Nope. No issues at all 'including' men in the definition of women. Nothing to see here. All those pesky women raping with their penis.

FOJN · 18/08/2023 18:52

If by this you mean self-ID, which has not passed here yet, this has been the case in Malta since 2014, Ireland since 2015, Denmark since 2015, New Zealand since 2012, and various other countries since the 2010s/20s. There has not been a sudden invasion or uptick in crime in those countries since then.

There was no public debate in Ireland and you can hardly argue that Barbie Kardashian in a women's prison isn't a concern.

In Malta they would rather a woman having a miscarriage reached deaths door before they intervened to help so I don't have much faith in their respect for women's rights.

When you accept self ID it means crimes committed by males are recorded as committed by women if the offender has changed "legal sex" so how would we know about whether crime stats gave been affected.

Now let's talk about the number of rapes taking place in women's prisons in California.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 18/08/2023 20:35

loislovesstewie · 18/08/2023 18:39

I take issue with the idea that all men are rapists , I know some very pleasant men, I even have them in my family. I still wouldn't invite them into women's spaces because they are men. NOT because I think any of them is likely to attack a woman.

This. I'm pretty sure all the many good men I know would never dream to impose themselves into womens space's. It takes a special kind of entitlement to even consider as a man your feelings are more important than the safety and sigmoid women and girls

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 18/08/2023 20:35

Safety and dignity even

TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening · 18/08/2023 20:38

I know it's a bit of a naf saying, but, "the good men stay out, so the bad men stand out".
All men know fine well they are not welcome.

Swansandcustard · 18/08/2023 21:14

Ladybrrrd · 18/08/2023 17:32

But never with consent and now by literally any male who claims to be trans thanks to the efforts of TRAs to widen the stonewall agenda, not confined to a few males with gender dysphoria.

If by this you mean self-ID, which has not passed here yet, this has been the case in Malta since 2014, Ireland since 2015, Denmark since 2015, New Zealand since 2012, and various other countries since the 2010s/20s. There has not been a sudden invasion or uptick in crime in those countries since then.

But given that women have never been asked or consented to males in our spaces I presume you just REALLY don't think that women matter as much as men.

I'm a woman and I do consent to trans women in women's spaces. You won't get the same answer from 'women' because we aren't a borg. I'm in women's spaces with trans women at least once month and I can tell you that I have never, ever felt threatened. Neither have the hundreds of other not-trans women I attend the events with. So to me, you are the minority opinion. Don't speak for me.

Not to mention the overt lesphobia and homophobia of the trans movement which calls lesbians and gay men bigots for refusing to consider relationships with people of the same sex who identify as lesbians or gay men. How a gay person cannot see that this is bigotry is quite beyond me.

I don't even know where to begin with this. It's pure moral panic. I'm yet to come across any support for this opinion on trans-friendly lesbian subreddits, trans subreddits, any real life trans women I know, or whereever. I have personally rejected a couple of transwoman for a date, without any backlash whatsoever. I suspect thats because I said, no thanks, I'd rather not. Rather than saying, 'ew yuck I'd never date a transwoman'.
I think you'll find that's what people object to. It's not the turning down of anyone for a date/sex, which we are all entitled to do for whatever reason. It's the announcing to the world that you'd never do it because TW are men. There's no need. Its the fact that you'd refuse to call a TW and a natal woman being together a lesbian relationship. It's not up to you to define anyone.

This, exactly this. Declining an advance politely is fine (as I’ve declined approaches from lesbians who tell me I’m in denial) but the outrage-how-dare-you and ‘No! You’re a man’ is just fucking spiteful. There are SOME men who use trans for their own twisted ends. There are SOME nurses who kill babies. Some. Not all. And saying otherwise is absolutely no different to those people in the 60s/70s/80s who called gays every name under the sun, it was a choice, it was a fashion, it was a death sentence.

If, by disagreeing with the blanket hatred and interlocution, it makes someone a TRA, God help us. Double standards much.

BlackForestCake · 18/08/2023 21:20

AIBU to think that most people are not bothered if a man wants to be known as she/her and transition?

I'm not actually hugely bothered about that. I am very bothered if the rest of us are forced under threat of being arrested or losing our jobs to pretend we believe he's actually really a woman.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 18/08/2023 22:03

There are SOME men who use trans for their own twisted ends

Yes, which is why ALL men must be excluded from female only spaces.
It's basic fucking safeguarding.
The safety, privacy and dignity of women should be priority over men's feelings.

These spaces are sex segregated not 'gender' segregated. Perfectly legal to exclude all men.

Men who ignore women's boundaries are predators.

Swansandcustard · 18/08/2023 22:08

labelling an entire group because they belong to that group is prejudice. ‘Predators’. No, you cannot call all trans women predators - that’s what is disproving the GC agenda.

If you spoke like that about any other minority you would justifiably be called a bigot.

BlackForestCake · 18/08/2023 22:13

We are not calling men predators, we are saying they shouldn't be in female-only spaces. This is basic stuff, I'm embarrassed for you.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 18/08/2023 22:40

And I always wonder why, if TW really see themselves as women and part of the sisterhood why they stay quiet when so many of their community (which, if they are such a minority is actually a fair few) carry out actions which impact on women and girls so unfairly.

You want to be in the gang? Perhaps put your heads above the parapet occasionally and call out the shocking behaviour of some of your community and its supporters.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 18/08/2023 22:47

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 18/08/2023 22:40

And I always wonder why, if TW really see themselves as women and part of the sisterhood why they stay quiet when so many of their community (which, if they are such a minority is actually a fair few) carry out actions which impact on women and girls so unfairly.

You want to be in the gang? Perhaps put your heads above the parapet occasionally and call out the shocking behaviour of some of your community and its supporters.

They aren't, and never will be, women. Which is why they don't call them out.