Page 6 | To think British maternity care must be among the worst in the developed world?

Mamai90 · 18/08/2023 10:02

I had a baby in 2021 and the care I received was amazing. I had a section and they took the baby for a few hours for me to sleep, they were wonderful. I think it varies by trust but I'm in Belfast and friends have received the same excellent care although my SIL was only 5 miles down the road in a different hospital and the care was pretty dire.

These threads really scared me when I was having my first, some real horror stories and I'm not diminishing anyone else's experience I'm just giving a more balanced view that it's not all awful.

BIossomtoes · 18/08/2023 10:03

MW's aren't waitresses or care assistants.

No, they’re not so perhaps it would be a good idea to employ some care assistants to do those jobs?

Clefable · 18/08/2023 10:05

My ward had healthcare assistants both times who did some of the stuff around obs and personal care instead of the midwives.

IAmAnIdiot123 · 18/08/2023 10:05

Clefable · 18/08/2023 08:45

I'm afraid I just left both DDs when I needed the loo though, it didn't really occur to me to ask anyone to watch them when they were both asleep in my cubicle on a closed ward. Maybe that was a faux pas, but no one ever said anything!

Same! It wouldn't have occurred to me to ask someone to watch them whilst I nipped to the loo. It's a locked ward and the babies have electronic tags which alarm when removed. I just left both of mine asleep in the little plastic box.

SmellyNelliey · 18/08/2023 10:05

It's awful I gave birth at 17 in 2014 I ended up being resuscitated after birth once I had come around baby still at the side of my bed I was put in a side room and for 3 days no one person came in! Luckily for me my visitors was bringing me food.
Nobody checked my obs ect when the doctor came in he couldn't believe it.
I was sent home on day 4 if I'd of been older and wiser I'd of made a fuss about my whole time at new Cross hospital.

AuntieJune · 18/08/2023 10:05

MillWood85 · 18/08/2023 10:00

My DD is a student MW, and I'm open mouthed that it's a profession she's choosing to go into reading threads like this.

You don't need a qualified MW to watch your baby while you go to the bathroom or to bring your breakfast to you. It's a secure unit and your baby is tagged. MW's aren't waitresses or care assistants.

When I was on a postnatal ward in 2016, we had to wheel our babies everywhere with us in cots. We weren't allowed to carry them. Toilet, shower, food room - eveywhere.

Tippley · 18/08/2023 10:06

Part of the question worth asking is why birth has become so medicalised leading to intense care needs for so many births.

Because the NHS conducts defensive medicine, which is weird when it also tends to refuse women's wishes. If there's any inclination that the baby or woman may be at risk, however small, it's invariably better to defend intervention than to defend sorry we did see there was a risk but thought we'd see how it went which sadly wasn't well; very risk adverse. On the flip side if a woman wants an epidural, C section etc they're often faced with many barriers and attempts to put them off as its cheaper. So you get the worst of both worlds, but medicalisation isn't easier or cheaper, it's not done for fun.

WeWereInParis · 18/08/2023 10:07

MillWood85 · 18/08/2023 10:00

My DD is a student MW, and I'm open mouthed that it's a profession she's choosing to go into reading threads like this.

You don't need a qualified MW to watch your baby while you go to the bathroom or to bring your breakfast to you. It's a secure unit and your baby is tagged. MW's aren't waitresses or care assistants.

No one is saying that a midwife specifically should bring breakfast. Just that maybe a hospital ward should have some provision for feeding patients who cannot walk.

Toddlerteaplease · 18/08/2023 10:07

Clefable · 18/08/2023 08:45

I'm afraid I just left both DDs when I needed the loo though, it didn't really occur to me to ask anyone to watch them when they were both asleep in my cubicle on a closed ward. Maybe that was a faux pas, but no one ever said anything!

As long as they are safely in there cots. I don't see why they need someone with them while you just pop to the loo.

HowToSaveAWife · 18/08/2023 10:08

mullyluo · 18/08/2023 08:35

Have had a baby with both NHS and HSE in Ireland. Ireland was miles better. They offered to take the baby overnight for c-section mothers, had brought meals and snacks to the bed, had short visiting hours and I even saw a physio as standard before I left. It's also a min 3 night stay after c-sections. Compare that to emergency section with NHS (baby got stuck during section) where the surgeon came round the next day to ask if I would leave when I still couldn't walk, constant noise from partners and visitors on wards and really poor pain relief.

Agreed. I had friends who came back to Ireland to deliver after experiencing prenatal care in the UK and were horrified. I've experienced healthcare in the UK and knew there was no way in hell i'd ever have babies there. I moved back to Ireland and had both babies here. Both experiences were incredible, one vaginal delivery and one section. Food fab, facilities amazing. Round the clock midwife care and great pain relief. Five night stay each time, with a review from physio before I left and follow up care direct to the ward I was on for a month afterwards.

I cannot believe the standard of care given and accepted to women in the UK. It's a scandal.

sleepyscientist · 18/08/2023 10:09

DS was an emergency section at 2am so DH was sent home when we went to the ward. Our care was excellent but I didn't want a midwife to watch my baby I wanted DH. It should be a right for the dad to be able to stay with the baby and mum, more woman are going to want DH there than those who don't want to be around men. I honestly think it will help with woman healing as well.

I ended up going home after 24hrs as it meant DH could do everything physical whilst I recovered and cuddled DS.

Spendonsend · 18/08/2023 10:09

MillWood85 · 18/08/2023 10:00

My DD is a student MW, and I'm open mouthed that it's a profession she's choosing to go into reading threads like this.

You don't need a qualified MW to watch your baby while you go to the bathroom or to bring your breakfast to you. It's a secure unit and your baby is tagged. MW's aren't waitresses or care assistants.

O dont want a qualified midwife to bring breakfast to me. But all the other wards manage to have a care assistant or catering employee deliver breakfast so I dont quite get why new mums in varying states have to do something different to everyone else. The "i got really pissed and fell over' are getting waiter service.

RLmadmum · 18/08/2023 10:10

I think I might be in the minority where I couldn't fault my aftercare at all! I'm shocked that it isn't the standard at all hospitals. Absolutely mind blown.

I had nurses and midwifes coming in regularly to check up on me and baby, always offered brews, snacks and reminded that my buzzer was at the side of my bed and don't be afraid to use it. Accidentally ripped out my cannula and within seconds of buzzing, I had a nurse coming in to clean me up and another one looking after baby whilst me and my bed was being cleaned. Breastfeeding specialist there on the ward always bobbing in and gave me her work number to contact if I needed anything when I was discharged and the nursing staff were also amazing with helping me and baby get started on our breastfeeding journey. I'm actually really saddened that not everyone had the same level of care I did! I gave birth in an NHS hospital and yes, they were also woefully understaffed but the staff they had were so amazing and caring, I'm actually so upset so many people haven't had the same experience I did.

UnfortunateTypo · 18/08/2023 10:11

It was appalling 20 years ago when I had DD, so bad in fact she’s an only child for that reason. The NHS was short of about 5,000 midwives then. I dread to think how bad it is now. If DD ever has children here, over my dead body will it be on the NHS. I’ll pay for her to either have them privately or abroad. I’ve been saving up since she was a baby, so she doesn’t have the same experience I had.

Timetochangegonzo · 18/08/2023 10:11

No one is saying that a midwife specifically should bring breakfast. Just that maybe a hospital ward should have some provision for feeding patients who cannot walk.

oh yes, that bit was fun too. Watching others have breakfast as I couldn’t manage to get up and get it myself. I had to ask a random man to help me get a bowl of cereal.

Tippley · 18/08/2023 10:12

MillWood85 · 18/08/2023 10:00

My DD is a student MW, and I'm open mouthed that it's a profession she's choosing to go into reading threads like this.

You don't need a qualified MW to watch your baby while you go to the bathroom or to bring your breakfast to you. It's a secure unit and your baby is tagged. MW's aren't waitresses or care assistants.

Of course some new mums need their breakfast bringing to them, it shouldn't be the job of a midwife necessarily but this attitude isn't helpful either. Some will have catheters, some connected to Ivs, others in the middle of breastfeeding during meal times. Other wards have food brought round to beds in most cases, it's absolutely not a wild expectation. Also babies aren't tagged, they have an ID bracelet on and realistically it's fine to leave them in their cots, but part of caring for women in the postnatal period involves this sort of thing. As a qualified midwife invariably your daughter won't be the one doing them but let's hope she has a better attitude than you do and supports the MSWs who will be doing these tasks.

Piranhaha · 18/08/2023 10:12

It’s a feminist issue. I had a c section and got chucked out of hospital 18 hours later, I was never examined by a doctor again. No therapy to help me recover. Meanwhile my neighbour had a heart bypass and was kept in for a week to rest, then sent to the GP for follow ups and received a 3 month course of physiotherapy. Why didn’t I get physiotherapy? Why didn’t I get checked by a doctor? Why didn’t I get a week to rest and recover? It’s disgusting and discriminatory.

FloNightingale · 18/08/2023 10:12

ForestGoblin · 18/08/2023 08:14

Nurses refusing to watch newborns when a mum needs to poo??? Nurses have got a professional and legal obligation to support patients to receive adequate personal care (not being compelled to poo yourself has got to be rung one of meeting that obligation).

Friends who have given birth in Ireland, france, south Korea, Switzerland were all given support to sleep, recover, be recognised as an injured person in need of recovery time.

British nurses trick new mothers into thinking they can't leave their babies for a minute on a bloody hospital ward (even when they've got numb legs).

Rise up, damnit!

Nurses don’t care for you on the postnatal ward, that’s midwives. Although, admittedly a few of them are dual qualified.

As with nurses and the rest of the HCPs within the NHS, there are too few of them to do the job as well as they would like to. Blame the system, not the individuals.

Xmasfairy86 · 18/08/2023 10:13

Tippley · 18/08/2023 08:25

The majority of care on postnatal wards is given by midwives rather than nurses, the vast majority of whom would love to have time to give new mothers even the bare minimum of care. You are right it's dire here, a lot is down to not being adequately staffed; as across the rest of the NHS recruitment and retention is a huge issue. Plenty of people apply to train as midwives but either leave training or leave early on in their career when they realise how crap it is here. I'll try and find the source but there was a stat recently that said out of every 10 midwives that train only 1 will be working as one within 3 years.

Unless something is done it'll only get worse, I wouldn't have another baby in this country.

And it’s stats like that that put me off training.

Izzy24 · 18/08/2023 10:14

CaptainJackSparrow85 · 18/08/2023 09:45

People often talk about the ‘over-medicalisation’ of births but my experience of NHS maternity care is that there’s a major drive towards ‘under-medicalising’ them because vaginal births are thought to be cheaper.

And all the major NHS maternity scandals - Shrewsbury/Telford and Morecambe - centred around withholding intervention (in particular withholding caesareans and forcing women to have natural births resulting in serious injury or death for them and their babies).

And let’s not forget, until very recently, hospitals had quotas for caesareans and were applauded for achieving low c-section rates - I think Shrewsbury/Telford was held up as a shining example at one point for its high rate of vaginal births, missing the tiny little wrinkle that mothers and babies kept dying or suffering grievous injury.

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You are absolutely correct about the reports on these trusts.

Perhaps in part this accounts for the current culture which unfortunately is as I have described.

Snoresforsmores · 18/08/2023 10:15

If dh hadn't looked after me in the hospital I would have starved, as would my twins. The care was negligent at best. Btw - he didn't disturb other mums - I was given a private room because I has a particularly difficult birth. When they said he couldn't stay, I said I was leaving - then they changed their minds. I had no confidence in their care. That was 20 years ago - I'd be terrified if dd was having a baby now.

Tippley · 18/08/2023 10:15

Xmasfairy86 · 18/08/2023 10:13

And it’s stats like that that put me off training.

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I definitely wouldn't do it at the moment, especially with fee repayments changing. I do think things will have to get better as they can't get much worse, but anyone interested in training to become a midwife would be much better keeping an eye on the apprentiships that are starting to be offered where you get paid whilst doing the degree; also gives a better experience imo than fighting for numbers on placements. I am dual qualified but haven't kept up my midwifery registration as its honestly so dire.

Jantlet · 18/08/2023 10:15

Izzy24 · 18/08/2023 09:27

This is absolutely the case.

Part of the question worth asking is why birth has become so medicalised leading to intense care needs for so many births.

NICE guidelines suggesting induction of labour for ALL women at 41 weeks have led to an exponential rise in the need for intensive maternity care.

It is not the norm now that most women arrive at their maternity unit in spontaneous labour, give birth, feel relatively well and go home within 24 hours having been supported with their recovery and chosen method of feeding.

This is more usual:

Woman is ‘told’ she will be induced (hard to resist when the suggestion is that you will be putting your baby at risk if you don’t want this).

Induction either fails (in which case C/S)
or is so intense an epidural is essential.

lack of mobility during labour does not aid progress or enable the baby into the most favourable position for birth.

If the woman is unable to birth her baby/too exhausted to push then there will be an assisted delivery with ventouse or forceps.

If that’s not possible then, again, C/S.

At the end of which women are exhausted and traumatised.

So many things need to change in maternity care and it’s not just about training and retention of midwives.

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These are exactly my observations from a distance.

So many tales of these inductions lasting for days followed by “off to theatre for emergency repair”.

I was a birthing partner recently, at a large teaching hospital. Had to go to the control hub/central nursing station at one point. I glanced at a side wall covered in a giant whiteboard showing the overall situation for each patient. A staff member, in scrubs, was standing there, arms akimbo, staring up at it like a rabbit caught in the headlights. She looked like she didn’t know which way to turn next.

Giving birth in the UK is a bloody (sometimes literally) lottery.

Mummyme87 · 18/08/2023 10:16

Yup I’m a midwife and agree some aspects of care are shocking, vast majority of midwives try their hardest to provide the best care but come out of their shifts feeling disheartened, sad, angry and utterly burnt out about the bare basics of care they have been giving.
the workload is often unmanageable, the ratios are crazy, the complexity of women and their babies isn’t Comparable to what it was when I started my training almost 20yrs ago, majority were low risk and no baby obs back then.

I can’t excuse poor attitude from anyone and the system is so fucked up now, there are genuinely not enough staff, and certainly not enough staff to watch babies all night and every time someone wants a wee or whatever. It will all be privatised before we know it anyway then we will be complaining about the cost of insurance and the extra on top that isn’t covered.

my trust recently had a CQC review and were given inadequate, interestingly the care wasn’t the issue, and the women reported they were happy with their care, the staff/women/trust have been let down by the senior management and executives within the trust who don’t take their staff concern seriously enough and are happy to pay hideous amounts of money to employ agency staff instead of paying their own an appropriate bank rate, which in turn reduces women’s satisfaction and safety.

anyway, it is shit, it won’t get better and certainly won’t whilst tories are continuously voted in and running the health service into the ground, continuously underfunding and failing it.

IAmAnIdiot123 · 18/08/2023 10:16

Tippley · 18/08/2023 10:12

Of course some new mums need their breakfast bringing to them, it shouldn't be the job of a midwife necessarily but this attitude isn't helpful either. Some will have catheters, some connected to Ivs, others in the middle of breastfeeding during meal times. Other wards have food brought round to beds in most cases, it's absolutely not a wild expectation. Also babies aren't tagged, they have an ID bracelet on and realistically it's fine to leave them in their cots, but part of caring for women in the postnatal period involves this sort of thing. As a qualified midwife invariably your daughter won't be the one doing them but let's hope she has a better attitude than you do and supports the MSWs who will be doing these tasks.

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Both of my babies had electronic tags which alarmed if removed or the baby was taken from the ward. This was separate to the name tag.