To think British maternity care must be among the worst in the developed world?

[ForestGoblin]

Nurses refusing to watch newborns when a mum needs to poo??? Nurses have got a professional and legal obligation to support patients to receive adequate personal care (not being compelled to poo yourself has got to be rung one of meeting that obligation).

Friends who have given birth in Ireland, france, south Korea, Switzerland were all given support to sleep, recover, be recognised as an injured person in need of recovery time.

British nurses trick new mothers into thinking they can't leave their babies for a minute on a bloody hospital ward (even when they've got numb legs).

Rise up, damnit!

It's bad, I totally agree. I wouldn't want to have DC now (that I am older & wiser).

I suffered terribly during my pregnancy with DC2 (now 13). Won't go into details as EVERYTHING was brushed off.
Anyway, the advice I received was: "You can self certify as sick up to 5 days." I worked FT at the time and had other DC to look after.

The after care was just as shocking! I struggled once DH went back to work.
All my health visitor said was: "Well, at least your DH works, you are so lucky that he doesn't spend his time down the pub!"
(I believe I had post natal depression...I remember very little of that time except sitting at home crying and DC screaming in the background- while other DC was at school!)

I hate that this & worse happens to other women as well.

My sister had a baby by C section in New York a year after I had my second in Scotland. I had much better care and aftercare ( home visit from Midwife and health visitor etc) and a longer hospital stay but she did not have expensive health insurance just a mid price plan and her care was basic and impersonal compared to what I experienced, but this was about 20 years ago.

The NHS hospital I gave birth in had individual en suite rooms for all patients on the ward. A much better system. Dads or other family can visit / stay without bothering anyone else, you can talk to medical staff in private, and of you need to go to the loo you can just leave baby in their cot and go - they're in practically the same room so it's all good. The delivery room I was put in even had a sofa bed for dad.

Don't get me wrong, my care was far from perfect - apparently the midwives there have no idea what labour looks like, for a start ("oh no, you're days or weeks away yet" and sent me home 45 mins before baby was out), but the facilities were very good, and to be fair, the care I received AFTER the births was mostly good too.

To add, my children are 2.75 and 1, so this wasn't long ago at all.

Mine are teens now, but was glad the first was born in NZ with great care provided. Second was born in UK and care was poor/non existent, but felt more confident to cope because I'd received good advice with my first.

If you are alone with no family and friends you are fucked in this country if you happen to give birth.

it is an open secret that maternity care is dire in England and has been for years. It slips under the wire because most new parents are too relieved to have a healthy baby that they don’t complain. Or too exhausted in the aftermath to follow it up.

Recent maternity scandals suggest that midwife led units have prioritised staff opinions over safety. Yes, there’s a lack of staff but there’s also a dismissive attitude towards women. We truly are treated as the ‘second sex’ sometimes.

It’s also a point that some of the legal guidelines in the Uk designed to protect women (eg regulation/insurance of independent midwives, doulas etc) mean that women have less access to support than in places like the Netherlands /Germany where independent midwives are widely available.

I'll be forever grateful to the hospital I went to for the services I received, from my antenatal care to being on the maternity ward after my c section. I was listened to, supported and reassured throughout. I'll never forgot how the midwives and nurses on the ward offered to look after my baby on my second night so I could sleep. My husband and I were exhausted as my little one was very unsettled and I was trying to establish bf. They were looking out for me and my husband and not just our little one.

On the whole, my care wasn't too bad going by some of these stories. But I did opt for a section (no medical need) largely due to what I'd heard about inductions/vaginal births and poorer maternal outcomes. In what world is it okay that women feel they have to choose major surgery to avoid NHS incompetence/poor practice around a vaginal birth?

When I was born, my mum was asked how long she wanted to stay in hospital (a week) she had her own room, the midwives bathed me, took me so my mum could sleep and all meals were served to her in bed. When I had my DD fairly recently, I was expected to go to the dining room to get my own breakfast, look after DD on my own all night, take her into a grimy hospital toilet with me by pushing her cot around the ward when I'd just had major abdominal surgery! It's craziness. But still better than the potential 5 day induction with birth injuries that no one will do anything about for years, if at all. Oh and 3 members of staff insisted DD wasn't tongue tied - and of course she was (severely). I was also sent to a clinic miles from home for a new baby check, not sure what I was supposed to do if DH couldn't have driven me there and the midwife lectured me about how little DD was feeding, when in reality, it was all perfectly normal. No wonder BF didn't last after they put the fear of God into me about her post birth weight loss (8%) and completely ignoring the fact she was tiny (2nd centile, 5lb 8oz) and of course wasn't going to be wanting as much as an 8lb baby!

I think it's the gaslighting onto of the birth trauma that I get irritated by.

Women can birth without hospital or maternity care. They're often lead down the path of instrumental birth by implying fear of xyz.

Then when they need a pair of hands because of the way their birth was manipulated by strangers, these midwives talk about how hard their paid day is.

They are guaranteed a job when people's employment is unpredictable. Even when they make a mistake. Yet they talk like they do it voluntarily and how ungrateful said mum who has often spent hours in labour is.

Mum's need nutrition and the quality of food doesn't aid wound care so breakdown in wounds and poor hygiene from failing to change saturated beds increases wound infections too.

Lactation support should be from about 6 months pregnant. Latch express and how traumatic births reduce the chances of milk production. Formula companies get paid so much money thanks to all these situations failing mums.

In the USA after same day discharges became pushed by insurers in the 1990s, they passed a law guaranteeing you the right to 48 hours after a vaginal delivery and 96 after a C-section. I'd say that most women I know stay one night after a vaginal and 2-3 after a C-section. There are birth centres that are midwife only and those discharge you the same day.

the aftercare I had in the UK sounded better in theory and would have been (home visits etc) if it had been done right but the midwives were under such pressure that they didn't really have time. And of course, I was the unlucky one who had issues beyond the scope of a midwife and had to go back to hospital for the consultant.

I was consultant led with all 3 pregnancies in both countries and to be quite honest I feel at that level of care things get very similar in style and it's more about whether you get an obstetrician you get on with.

I also think that the RCM'a position pushing natural birth, even though they officially abandoned their campaign, was really damaging to care quality and often amounted to gaslighting.

Honestly maternity care is the main reason I have gone off having a second child. My time on the ward after giving birth was shocking and I never want to experience it again. When the health visitor came on day 5 post birth I had a breakdown and told her all about it and even she was horrified.

I had a really unpleasant birth (no way near as bad as some) but so much so I still hate talking about it. Then on the ward I had terrible support. Breastfeeding support was non existent, a midwife popped in once to explain and told me to keep trying. 2 hours later she appeared and I was still struggling so she said “yeah I think you should do formula” (which I’m happy I did on reflection but I’d have liked some support to try breastfeeding).

I was in some pain so asked for some paracetamol and waited over 2 hours after asking several times for it. I had been told all through my stay that I’d be good to go home that evening once I’d gotten to grips with bottle feeding. Only to be told at 8 that we couldn’t leave we needed more blood tests as I’d lost a lot of blood. I questioned why we’d been told otherwise and if we could do the tests and come back for results (after the 2 hour paracetamol wait on a ward of 10 other mums with screaming babies and having been awake over 50 hours this point id been so excited to get home where I didn’t have to walk 5 minutes to a toilet, had access to a tap for nappy changes and could grab paracetamol whenever I liked). The response was “well you can go home but you’ll probably be coming back here in an ambulance!” Which was a bit of a shock after being told everything was fine for the last 12 hours.

I ended up getting discharged at 2am as I refused to stay any longer than absolutely necessary. My blood test results were absolutely fine. obviously if I’d been aware there was a problem and needed more tests I’d have been ok but I’d spent all afternoon mentally preparing myself for going home and that everything was fine, being told I was in need of tests so much that I’d probably be blue lighted back to the hospital was scary and a huge miscommunication.

Both of mine were fantastic. Just to redress the balance.

This is why I paid for independent midwives for 2 and 3 - and this was back in the late 90s early noughties. Honestly best money I’ve ever spent in my life. I’ve heard so many horror stories - particularly about the post natal wards. The lack of kindness is shocking.

I had my daughter in 2010 and some were good some were not. They took all the babies at night and had them round their work station which is good. But then one shouted at me for changing her nappy on the bed after I had a c-section and standing for more than 2 mins hurt. One put a solution on my scar to get rid of the sticky plaster marks and burnt yes literally burnt my scar and all around it. There was yellow bubbles all over and had to have antibiotics. Another told another c-section mum if she carried on walking the way she was she will heal like that. And finally they told me to shower the day after the surgery on my own and take the bandage off myself. I nearly fainted as clots were coming away. But apart from that was great 😂

Some of the horror stories I’ve read on MN have made me want to cry. I’m beyond sad that the standard of care women have to tolerate now is so shockingly poor.

Mine was born in the 1970s and it was a different world. A seven day stay for a first baby, babies taken to the nursery at night and for an hour early afternoon. All meals were brought onto the six bed ward. Men only at visiting times.

There were enough midwives but women helped each other - the experienced mums reassured and advised first timers. Lifelong friendships started on maternity wards.

It makes me really angry that it’s such a shitshow now by comparison. Maternity care must just about the only aspect of healthcare that’s gone backwards in 50 years.

In case any pregnant women are reading this and feeling terrified - I had my first baby this year in an nhs hospital and I thought my care was excellent. Yes I could see the staff were very busy in the aftercare on the ward, but there was a bell to press and someone would come to help within a minute.
My birth didn’t go perfectly to plan but I felt like me and my baby were in safe hands.
Maybe it’s not as good as it used to be but I had nothing to compare it to and thought it was fine.
They don’t keep you in as long as they used to (I stayed one night) but personally I just wanted to get home.

Never had any issues when i gave birth to my children. Nurses/ mid wifes/medical staff were fabulous and caring/helpful.

Whole heartedly agree with you op. I had 3 in hospital and one a home birth and the home birth was amazing as I was comfortable a day they ran me a bath and helped dh with baby and kids whilst I washed and they couldn't leave until I had urinated.

In hospital inwas forgotten about until they needed to do vitals and made to feel like a drug addict when I asked for paracetamol once even though I gave birth drug free and no gas and air either.

My MIL was here for my second and she stayed with my youngest and she was gobsmacked at how we where treated and didn't expect me to come home the same day. She said where she's from the hospital helped you for at keast 3 days so you can rest.

I hope I'm around for when my kids have their kids so I can help alleviate anything by helping my girls or my boys partners(if they want me to)

Also men on the ward! I didn't let dh stay for the sake of other women. Turns out other women don't care and their dhs take up the space and most aren't even doing anything for the baby. Just sat there watching shit on YouTube and spreading put into your space too

Apart from the complete lack of actual care, the thing that got to me most was the constant interruptions. Me and baby needed 4 hourly obs, but at different times. Then in between there's painkillers, meals, the dads coming to the wrong bay etc etc. It's like torture.

I don't think anyone was suggesting it would be free (it isn't free for domestic users in most countries). And Norway isn't remotely interested in brexit (nor am I tbh).

Also by number 3 you have a good idea what your body is doing. Do they listen to you? Do they heck! Had to catch 3 of my babies as they kept saying they weren't coming abd I'm saying yes they are. Aslo only one midwife in the delivery room due to understaffed. Although my first the midwife was too busy chatting outside the door loudly about some soap she was watching and walked I'm and seemed surprised she missed it because I was so quiet.... so you yell you are told to be quiet. You are quiet and told well I couldn't help you because you didn't sound like you where in labour 😑