If you enjoy drag, to ask why?

[ForestGoblin]

I don't get it at all. It looks to me like a crude mockery of women. Even on the presumably somewhat sanitised RuPaul, the word for a "realistic" (ie could pass as a woman) drag queen is "fish"... A reference to being so womanly it's as though they have a vagina. I feel like they hate women and are performing all the things they find ridiculous about us in a really hammed up way. Making us seem bitchy and preening.

Also, more fundamentally, I don't understand the entertainment factor of "oh haha it's a man who looks a bit like a lady haha he's in a dress haha". So? On which note, how on earth are the lady boys of Bangkok still going strong with their tour. Don't give me oo the costumes and skillful songs and dances - as if people would go to see "the costumed dancers of Bangkok". There's some wow factor to seeing "ladyboys" specifically.

But loads of my friends love it. So it can't actually be as bad as I think. (Can it?)

Yanbu - drag is offensive to women or just not entertaining

Yabu - drag is awesome

I quite like it when it's playing a character. I know it's always supposed to be that but I think like in most fields, some do it better than others. Tbh I think panto is if anything more misogynistic and Widow Twanky is as rude a name as Cheryl Hole.

I loath drag and find it offensive - the disgusting stage names, the fish references, the belittling and ridiculing of women. Why so many women find it entertaining I have no idea.

It doesn’t offend me. The tradition of men assuming female roles goes back to Shakespeare and mistaken gender is a key element in some of his plays. It’s always been intrinsic to pantomime with the dame and principal boy.

I believe Cheryl hole was in a drag girl group version of girls aloud so the name is a spin on Cheryl Cole.

Funny how he didn't choose to use Cheryl Mole/Dole/Sole or any other rhyming word with Cole. No, chose the word to make people think of the "bonus hole" (ref a recent post about a hospital referring to a vagina as a bonus hole)

I don't mind men dressing up as women. But they will never be women. They should be referred to as 'he' and for that to be ok. A 6yo can tell Cheryl is a 'he'. Just say 'he'!

I don't understand why blackface isn't acceptable but this is.

But then I don't understand why transgender is understandable but transracial is an outrage

Love the makeup, clothes and creativity. Some are amazing comedians and so quick witted.

I’m not into the innuendo type drag queens though.

Some drag definitely is offensive to women. But I wouldn’t want to restrict comedy as a whole. Men can dress as women to play a comedy character, eg Little Britain which i found quite funny

I know a drag performer, just one so I can't say if his views are typical or not, but he's very vocal about the fact that he's a gay man not a woman. He's also the only bloke I know in real life who's very actively gender critical. He has no qualms about raising his head above the parapet so to speak and has came in for a lot of criticism about it.

Same

If you bothered to properly watch RuPaul you’d see for a lot of people it’s a coping mechanism and a way to deal with homophobic bullying or eating disorders. It’s not about men mocking women, it’s an art form. A lot of the contestants aren’t about big fake breasts, but amazingly well made costumes.

The support they show for each other on these shows is lovely to see, it’s not about mocking women and that’s a lazy, ill informed assumption.

is the lady boys drag? I watched them recently and found it really funny and entertaining

I went to an Alice in Wonderland themed drag event in Manchester and it was great. There were songs, games and it was funny. Not all the drag artists were in female dress (there was a rabbit and mad hatter), very reminiscent of panto but more sharp and sarcastic. I suppose some people think it's enough to put a man in a dress and call it drag, but the actual performance is only good if they have the talent to work with it. As for calling a drag performer 'she', I just think of it as being part of the performance.

Reading

I think it is about men mocking women. I don't think that's ok even if they do it because they had a hard time.

Is bad male behaviour excusable if the men in question had difficult pasts?

Do you think blackface is offensive?

I find it crass, misogynistic and quite horrible. Not too keen on panto either.

@forgotmyusername1 "I believe Cheryl hole was in a drag girl group version of girls aloud so the name is a spin on Cheryl Cole."

Yes. Why "Hole"?

It's worse than that - share a hole?
That's just hideous.

This is often trotted out, but really they’re not the same. Pantomime is aimed at children, the dames are typically older men wearing full length almost exaggerated Victorian style dresses.

Drag queens OTOH often wear sexualised or revealing clothes and as other have said choose names that make a mockery of women or that are downright to offensive.

That all said, I hate panto and panto dames too as it all just seems to be taking the piss out of women and for some children these men in dresses are pretty scary.

I used to find it funny. Watched all episodes of drag race. But since coming on Mumsnet I can't look at it the same way. Not watched it since.

Would you write this?

”If you bothered to properly watch The Black and White Minstrel show you’d see for a lot of people it’s a coping mechanism and a way to deal with bullying or eating disorders. It’s not about whites mocking black people, it’s an art form. A lot of the contestants aren’t about the darkest skin, but amazingly well made costumes.

The support they show for each other on these shows is lovely to see, it’s not about mocking black people and that’s a lazy, ill informed assumption”

I consider myself a feminist and have a really mixed relationship with drag. I watched RPDR avidly until the last few seasons. I loved the artistry and design (some of which is incredible) and the made up drama
between the contestants (BACK ROLLS), but I’ve grown more uncomfortable with the outward misogyny displayed by some more recent contestants.

I used to believe that it was gay men emulating women with respect, admiration and gentle fun-poking. However nowadays I’m not so sure, so much of the “comedy” is about making fun of women’s bodies that it actually repulses me.
I don’t think all drag is misogyny- for example I don’t think Lilly Savage is a misogynistic character any more than I think Mrs Merton is- but there does seem to be a current fashion for it that just takes any fun out of it.

I mostly enjoy watching Drag Race on TV, I love the costumes and transformations that they achieve and the comedy characters; they often have interesting back stories.

I'm sure there are some drag performers who are misogynists but that rarely comes across on the show. They are mostly just gay men who love make up, costume, theatre, dance, comedy etc and drag is the medium they use to express their creativity.

The majority of the contestants are not trans and do not think they are actual women. I am GC but I don't find it offensive at all.

Its obviously not everyone's cup of tea but i don't see it as being 'anti-feminist' to enjoy it. Surely by saying men aren't allowed to wear high heels, make up and flamboyant costumes then that is reinforcing the nonesense that makes people feel the need to transition?

I’ve never watched Drag Race but I agree with you about Lily Savage @BriceNobeslovesMurielHeslop. What do you think about Grayson Perry?