AIBU to think there should be something we can do about bullies

[TiredMum30]

My 12 year old daughter started secondary last Sept, she's been relentlessly bullied by the same group of boys and a few girls throughout the whole school year. We've been constantly on at the school but nothing has really been done other than they've had "words" with them, the occasional "sanctions" and the school have said they've spoken to their parents but it's continued.
We live near a large park that has a skatepark inside, most days during the holidays we've been going to the park with the dog and my DD uses the skatepark, some times this group of kids who have been bullying her have been there, but while I'm there they've mostly kept their distance from her. Maybe about 5 times I've been unable to go but have been at home so only a few min walk away so my DD has gone with her sister. A couple of times these kids have also been there and have proceeded to harass my DD and attempted to grab her skateboard out from underneath her or ran off with it and thrown it, they never bother her sister whose also in the same year. I have turned up each time and they've all ran off as soon as they've seen me approaching but the last time she went with her sister there was a physical altercation between my DD and another girl, but ultimately it came down to her word against my DD's unfortunately. My daughter was hurt.

AIBU to think that my 12 year old daughter should be able to safely go to our local park like other children her age without being harassed and bullied? And AIBU to think there should be something that can be done about them? Surely they can't just do as they please with no repercussions? I'm tempted to get the police involved however I don't want to make it worse for my DD. I've even considered switching schools or moving out of the area so she can start afresh but that would mean uprooting our other 2 children, 1 of which is taking his gcses next year. I'm just at a loss as what to do 😔

you should have called the police the first time your DD was at the skatepark and they took her board.

Call them anyway and ask for advice.

Bullying outside school should be referred to the police. It’s the middle of the summer holidays, and the school genuinely don’t have authority over what happens in every street and every skate park in its catchment.

Then when term starts again, you send a summary to the school (copy to the Chair of Governors if you wish - contact details must be on the school website) saying ‘x, y and z incidents involving DD and your pupils were reported to police over the holiday, incident numbers ……. As these are bullying as well as potentially demonstrating disability discrimination, we expect you to maintain vigilance in all circumstances where DD and these pupils of yours may come into contact to ensure her safeguarding. Please could we arrange a meeting within the next 5 days with all necessary staff to discuss how this will work in practice’.

It is NOT the school’s responsibility to police all interactions between their pupils outside school year-round. It IS the school’s responsibility to prevent and respond to bullying on their site in school time.

My DS has a similar approach to your DGC, he says that non of his mates hang around in the skatepark because that's where all the idiots hang out who think they're popular and hard. It seems all the years have a group of kids like this. My DS also said that year 7s are the worse for bullying and fighting because they're trying to establish themselves as the popular ones, apparently it gets easier as they get older but he's also not had any issues like our DD has since starting, although he does find it easier to ignore them our DD struggles to understand it due to her ASD. She's also going into year 8 and these kids have clearly carried it on and intend to make her life miserable in that year too 😔

This

Op, you need to find your mama bear here. Who are these kids parents? Do you know any scary looking men with tattoos?

Go round and confront the parents (not in a plummy voice or in tears whatever you do). Take scary man with you. Tell them to keep their little bullies to themselves or otherwise Dave (or whatever his name is) will deal with it. But throw in a few expletives.

If you don’t know where they live, same approach, confront them at the park. Don’t be afraid to get a bit personal/sweary with them, tell them they’re sad little bullies and to leave your daughter the fuck alone or you’ll be back.

They’re clearly not as hard as they think they are if your presence is enough to deter them normally.

I’ll get flamed for this but oh well.

Schools need to do a hell of a lot more

like what? These kids won’t give a fuck. Their parents will back them.

I know DS isn't perfect, and when we approached the school about him being bullied we acknowledged that, but we knew, we could see, he was having problems socially, before the school would acknowledge it.

But what do you do when another mum approaches you and tells you to make your son leave her son alone, but my son is complaining about the other boy's behaviour? I'm not in the school to see what is happening, I don't know who is starting what and the two boys are blaming each other.

It's not always as straightforward as 'my darling little angel would never do that'.

Get the mums number. Or message on FB. Tell her what you’ve put here, say you’re open to your son being the problem but you obviously need to determine that. Ask to get the boys together outside school to talk through it all. You’ll soon work out who is lying.

Well the least they can do is try to keep the victim away from the bullies by changing forms/groups, not putting the victim in the same team/group as the bullies, etc. Some schools/teachers can't even manage that!!

Teachers could also stop ignoring bullying that they see and hear themselves. You can't tell me they don't notice it happening under their noses!

Likewise they can stop treating the toilets as "no go areas", likewise known congregation areas behind classrooms etc., the places where the kids go to smoke during breaks and lunchtimes. Heaven help a pupil who actually needs the loo at a break as they're likely to be punched or burned by a fag end if they dare go into a loo where the "cool kids" are smoking. Teachers know they're smoking in there because of the smell and clouds of smoke - they just turn a blind eye to it!

Funny how teachers can present themselves at school gates to take names of pupils a couple of minutes late, but can't be arsed to check toilets for smokers (and drug takers).

At the end of the day, far too many teachers don't give a shit about bullying, and as posters above have said, they probably think the victim deserves it!

So they get caught. Consequences?

This was a while back and she just yelled at me in the street. No idea her name, not sharing my phone number with random people and don't really use Facebook.

And doesn't matter now, DS ended up school refusing, couldn't cope with seeing, or even being seen by his classmates. He was definitely being bullied because some of the kids learnt how to get a reaction out of DS. Not DS fault as he's since been diagnosed autistic, but he also had social difficulties, with very little understanding of personal space (and goodness knows it's something I've been trying to teach him since he was a toddler), and just 'being annoying' (from the other children's point of view.)

What harm will sharing your phone number do? It isn’t bank details. I would’ve offered it, said let’s get them together and sort this out, and that you’ll hear her son out fairly.

Why can't her sister have a word with them if she isn't able to stand up for herself.

Dreadful advice telling him to swear where will that get you?

They'll just phone 999 and say we've got a man swearing at us, on the doorstep.

Or this, I ‘took things into my own hands’ shall we say when my younger brother was being bullied. His bully went home in tears and his parents then made a complaint about me which the school laughed off because they knew. He never dared go near my brother again.

Because she yelled at me in the street rather than having a quiet word? It's not like I was on the other side of the road, I was about 4 meters away from her, and both children were present. She could have waited to have a quiet word once we'd dropped the children at school, and then maybe I would have swapped numbers if it had seemed appropriate.

Not always.
My school bully was popular, nice home life, good family (bizarrely l was friends with her cousin) - think she just saw l was more vulnerable than her so she decided to pick on me. It was fairly low level but enough to make me freeze when l bumped into her as an adult many years later.

I agree, it's that kind of behaviour which confuses the issue as to who is the bully and who is the victim, and why so many cases in schools of the teachers not knowing who to believe because both sides have, to some extent, escalated the problem, leaving it as a "he says, she says" situation.

Best to maintain dignity and not stoop to the level of the bully. That way schools (and police if it escalates) have no evidence to blame the victim!

But what do you do when another mum approaches you and tells you to make your son leave her son alone, but my son is complaining about the other boy's behaviour? I'm not in the school to see what is happening, I don't know who is starting what and the two boys are blaming each other.

If the other parent is being civil, maybe you could sit both boys down and tell them to make peace. And that you're not having anymore shit from either of them.

Thing with parents is... they're most often clueless on what goes on with school. The instinct is either you stand up for your own kid, or feel sorry for the one who cries louder.

It’s the middle of the summer holidays. The school have no responsibility for what is going on now or in the park and there is fuck all they can do about it.

Call the police instead. That’s what you’d do if anyone else was being abusive in public and if children are old enough to hang around unsupervised then they’re old enough to have the police called on them.

The school have a responsibility to help when this happens AT SCHOOL. The OP was full of incidents out of school, where the parent was aware of the danger and allowed it to continue.

Some ridiculous responses regarding 'mentioning safeguarding', reporting the school to Ofsted and implying that teachers ignore this behaviour. Imagine insinuating that OP couldn't be arsed dealing with this properly and calling social services on her because she hasn't reported to the police or tried to engage the bullies' parents...

I think the main thing is to get this into the open, shine a big light on it from all the adults willing to do something (or the OP) and who have a duty to (the school) backed up by police who often know background to troublemakers.

And keep going making a huge fuss escalating it.

You will be doing everyone a favour in the school if you make them more on top of bullying - often it’s a case of educating the deputy head, head and governors. I’d go to parent school meetings and raise this as a general issue. Get the governor name by searching their website, ofsted reports. Write to ofsted and trigger an inspection - I know lots of parents who have done this and it ultimately makes the school more aware and ups their game.

She's her twin and is the quietest of my 3 children, there's no way she would say something to them. She does ring me as soon as anything happens though.

My DD the one whose being bullied has always stuck up for herself, and if she's had to she's defended herself and i know that she has stuck up for her friends previously if they've being bothered by a bully but with these bullies they're doing it in a large group, so there's between 10-15 children all swarming around her and they're doing this in school too, so it's quite intimidating for them both really. They don't say boo to her when it's a small group or they're on their own though, so obviously not that hard!

My DD did take martial arts classes but she would easily become overwhelmed and stressed during a lesson if she felt they was going too fast and she couldn't keep up, the instructors we're great with her but I think the group sessions was just too busy for her really. I'll have a look to see if there are any smaller groups that both our dd's can attend, it may give them the confidence to stand up for themselves a little more.

Just to add that she's also worried about them starting on her also

there's between 10-15 children all swarming around her and they're doing this in school too, so it's quite intimidating for them both really.

Yes the time for ‘quiet words with the school governor’ have passed.

You need to fight fire with fire. I would suggest doing what I suggested (although don’t threaten or take a metal bar or anything like that!). You just need to be mouthy enough to show you’re not a family that takes well to getting picked on. Good luck!