To be upset that I was not told I was breast fed by my aunt?

[Evieanne]

So in my family’s religion and culture, breast feeding a baby who isn’t yours still forms kinship and re establishes part of who you cannot marry and who you’re allowed alone with from the opposite sex even within family and who can help marry you off.

In my case, as a baby I was Breast fed by my dad’s sister and I became my aunt’s milk daughter and I am the milk sibling to all of her aunt’s children - so my cousins from my aunty, through me being breast fed, became immediate family to me and are just like my biological siblings. so her male children can no longer marry me and can be alone with me and can be my guardian when I marry as they are considered my brothers.

So it is a huge thing in my family’s religion.

It took my parents a while to conceive, and they used a clinic to finally have me. There were concerns as to whether I was biologically both of my parent’s daughter, but they loved me anyway and said they didn’t want to know. My mum breast fed me a couple times just in case I wasn’t biologically hers and kept me bottle fed after that, so I know I am the mahram of her brothers and her dad. My aunt breast fed me when my parents took me to Pakistan as a baby to make sure there was no way I wasn’t blood family to my aunties and uncles on my dad’s side because my parents are related and there was no cheating, they were wanting to protect family ties. I don’t know why they just didn’t do a dna test.

But they kept this from me and I found out because my mum and my aunt had an argument about it and I was told by my mum I couldn’t be alone with any of cousins from my dad’s side unless female and I asked what about the cousins from this aunt who breast fed me, they’re my brothers ffs!!

Before rushing off to do a DNA test on Ancestry or similar @Evieanne please take some time to research DNA genealogy facebook groups or similar who will help you untangle the results. Endogamy to the extent you have in your own family is going to make things massively complex and you need the experts on the case.

Is he the one you’re wanting to go out with? And the dna test will tell you how related you are to him?

They implanted two embryos, one was theirs which was a lower quality but the best quality out of the ones they had while the other was the better quality embryo and meant I would only be related to one parent

This would not happen. A clinic wouldn’t be legally allowed to implant 2 embryos that weren’t from the same source. The legal implications and rules are totally different if you are having an embryo implanted from someone who isn’t yours or your partners.

You have to remember that this was all done in Pakistan, and over there is not like here! Lots of things that shouldn’t be done, are done! It’s quite corrupt and even more so if you’re not in a major city like Karachi or Lahore, but even then, corruption exists.

Sorry I should have said it’s not like the UK, as I don’t reside in the UK but it’s just natural to say here!

You deserve to know OP, you also deserved not to be abused by your mum. It sounds incredibly difficult to seperate from family with all the cultural expectations, but it sounds like getting away from all that could do you the world of good. I think it's hard to heal from trauma if you're still living with the person responsible for the trauma. Being away from them might help you heal and work out what you want moving forward.

We have no way of knowing where the IVF was done and therefore it shouldn’t be assumed to be Pakistan. It could have been the UK

Hi OP. Hope you are OK.

I am not Muslim. I grew up in a thriving Asian community in north west England so had friends who were Muslim. Some families were very strict (particularly with the girls), other families were more relaxed and let all their DC choose their own way.

I guess my question is - what are the DNA results going to give you in terms of your the choices you are going to make?

You are a young woman, you need to make decisions on how you want to live your life. It sounds like your family are pretty strict and believe in old traditions - something that might not be right for you.

I think you are putting a lot of focus on these DNA results when actually you need to concentrate on whether you want to follow the same or different path to your family

So why does a women need permission for her husband but a husband doesn't need it from her wife? And does a son need permission from his parents even if he's an adult?

OP

What do you want the DNA test to show?

If your aunt gave birth to you/provided her egg? If she's part of the diagram previously on the chart, you will be shown as a close relationship, regardless of whether she's your mother or aunt.

Whether you're related to your mother or father? You will be, but it will not be clear how.

The problem is, most people in the world have 8 different people as great grandparents.

You have 2.

Normal rules of DNA testing to show family relationships will not work.

What it might show is that you have a different father than who brought you up.

Are you prepared for that?

@MysteryBelle

Is he the one you’re wanting to go out with? And the dna test will tell you how related you are to him?

You posted this in response to a post in which OP reiterated she is not interested in her cousins in this way.

It's very strange to see you essentially accusing her of lying about that / goading her for a reaction.

She's said that isn't what's happening. She's been clear. Why are you convinced a complete stranger is lying about it? Very odd.

Yesterday at 12.52 then again at 13.58, @Evieanne alludes to the fact that she doesn't know what country it was. Together with other things she has said about the embryos being mixed, etc., that is not allowed in the UK, but on the subcontinent, you can pretty much find a doctor that will agree to all sorts of things, because sadly, it's very corrupt. Also, had it have been a UK clinic, and all aboveboard, I don't think the parents would be being so secretive, but I suppose we don't really know what is going through their minds. The parents seem to be pretty much north of moderate, if they don't allow OP to go out without a chaperone (work excluded). I saw friends whose parents were also much more strict and how horrific it could get for them.

Moderation in all things, including religion. We were lucky as kids as we had an Hafiz who taught us about Islam, and more Importantly, Islamic history and how the Sunnah and Hadith were written for a certain time and place, not necessarily for now.

So yes, while it's important to obey God's Will, some things that are Hadith are simply not practical in this day and age if you live in a western country!

Our matriarch used to say that we came to the west for a reason and it wasn't for others to change to suit us, but for us to assimilate into society and that if we didn't want to do that, then we should stay in the house and not go out!!

I very much doubt that the OP has been told the truth about the IVF process.

You should be happy not to have to marry a cousin. Take the good from this situation

How do you know if your sister is biologically your mother's and father's?
It may show you both have different genetics, then you still won't be sure. The only way to do it is with your mother and father

@FireflyJar spot on

@Evieanne can you move out safely and would you be ok? I am very sorry to hear the beatings you got as a child were like torture. I hate that.
Have you got a job?
Can you get advice and support from a different mosque where your fathers not part of the committee?

I think to be honest with you and a lot of people have said it, you are your aunts daughter! And the reason why she breastfed you was to still have that bond/give you milk as your mother (the one who raised you) maybe could not. And the reason whycyou have been told not to be alone with male cousins, is because they have concerns something could happen, as they're actually your blood brothers, let's just take milk brothers put if the equation for now. But it has been speculated by others. I don't know how it all worked out on your birth certificate for your parents to be on it. I mean I am just so confused as to how you are all so closely related. Grandmother and son are cousins and mother is cousins with dad and father is great uncle too. Its all really bizzare. And in islam this is really not OK to be married so closely. I don't get it at all.

I think maybe take a breather from all this, get yourself together financially and mentally and prepare to break away from family home. You were abused greatly and its actually awful and not acceptable in islam to beat children nilly willy. I am sorry you went through that.....
Maybe there's a possibility of you getting yourself together and marrying a nice Muslim brother from a different country or culture altogether and you have your own little family. I wish you all the best.

I am actually thinking of coming away from thisbthrrad as people are quoting my replies like its the worst thing ever and literally bashing islam.

DNA testing won't help. From the chart, her mother is also genetically her cousin, and her dad is also genetically her uncle.

@LylaLee the mother is also the cousin!!!???? Oh my goodness!
__

@MakeMineAdoubleChocolate

There are a lot of instances where women are walking in the park and in dodgy alleys in the dead of Night and then get robbed or beaten and then they cry over what happened but do you think if that lady was was a Muslim lady who was at home at that time of night, would that have happened to her. Tell me how many hijab women do you see out in the dark in the dead of night.

How many stories do you see in the news of Muslim women goes to night club or women comes out of the pub out of it, comes home through a dark alley and is raped and had her bag stolen or whatever. Its all about being safe and cautious. Its my man's job to know I am safe and my whereabouts. Its hardly the crime of the century....

You've just added victim blaming to your repertoire. Congrats.

What a horrific level of victim blaming, too. Adding in the particularly nasty 'then they cry over what happened, but...'

You should be ashamed of saying that about victims of male violence.

@monsteramunch well, they are crying. No one goes to the police laughing and clapping after being mugged or beaten to a pulp. And they certainly don't go home to their families and cheerfully announcing i was beaten and drugged at the club by a guy I thought was nice buying me a coke.
Theyre going home crying and distraught. And we have so many women going through counselling to help with the trauma and never getting past it because its so dreadful whats happening worldwide.
And then you have the bastard men getting a suspended sentence or just 2 bloody years!

And no its not victim blaming. I feel for all those poor women and girls. Its such a shame women cannot be safe at night, and there are scum men who prey on us. But its the reality.

Your previous post was absolutely victim blaming. Horribly so. If you can't see that, I'm not sure if you're here for genuine reasons. I don't wish to engage further with a victim blamer, have a good day.

No he’s not genetically my uncle, going by the chart my mum is also genetically my second cousin, but that is because my dad is my mum’s first cousin once removed because my dad is his wife’s mother’s first cousin. And that is assuming I am their blood daughter.

@MysteryBelle I think this has confused some posters like yourself but I have already explained that the cousins who are milk siblings are my father’s nephews from his brother, and no I don’t want to marry them. Whereas the cousin I’m intending on doing a test with is my mother’s nephew, my mum’s brother’s son, he’s half white and is ONLY related to me through my mum because my mum is his dad’s sister. But my dad is still our shared grandma’s first cousin. As he’s not related through his mum as she’s English, this will make it more clearer and we wouldn’t be first cousins, I would be his dad’s second cousin.

DNA would make things clearer to me, I would want to know who my parents really are without secrecy and to know which one I’m related to properly! It means a lot to me because to me biology actually matters, I should know who my parents are, not just those who raised them and lied to them about their parentage. I know some people think my aunt gave birth to me but she couldn’t have because I was born in the uk to my mother as stated on my birth certificate and my mum has baby scans for me so she would have given birth to me herself and my English aunt confirmed my mum had me.

And there’s a suggestion my aunt donated her eggs to my mum which could be likely as they did visit Pakistan the year before my birth year but I’m going to double check the passports to see when that was. But my aunt couldn’t have done this without her husband’s sperm as this is my paternal blood aunt so it wouldn’t really work with my father’s genetics.

I personally think if my dad is the unrelated parent, it’s more likely that they used a sperm donor in the UK or if my mum is the unrelated parent, they used a different egg donor with Pakistani descent maybe from Pakistan or elsewhere given how there aren’t many south Asian egg donors in the UK. And I don’t care either way which I’m blood related to because I stopped having love for them years ago I don’t feel any longing for them when they aren’t around, I just want answers, I don’t want to be bullshitted because this is their way of having control over me. My family bang on about how lineage is so crucial and having your fathers’ surname is a must so if he’s not my biological father then it’ll be rather funny, I’ll be asking for my real father’s surname.

Those same scummy men who are out doing this to women in pubs or children on the streets in gangs are the same ones beating their hijabi women and raping them. Just because they’re at home does not mean they’re safe. Look at the domestic abuse and sexual abuse rates by families, even our own immediate families who do purdah. I see lots of Muslim men out in places they shouldn’t be because they post it on their stories, perhaps it’s time we keep our men indoors on the same curfew so our women can go out freely enjoying the same privileges these men get.