What lifestyle do you think disabled people who are not working should have?

[HmmOk]

Curious about what other people think. Before anyone says it, yes I am quite aware that plenty of disabled people do work and lots earn very well. However not everyone is able to do that.

I generally think disability benefits should cover a decent quality of life - should make up shortfall in rent as rents are so high, decent quality food, pay for therapies and tools that would help the person's disabilities, and pay for some fun stuff so that everyone can participate in society. People need to have a bit more money than only meets their basic needs, to be able to meet a mate for coffee or have a day out or whatnot.

Thinking about this today as not currently working due to bereavement and poor physical health and know I'm lucky to be in a loving marriage where i am supported, and for now we are ok with money. I'm hoping to find work I can do soon that won't further fuck my health.

In contrast I have a mate who is very ill with very serious life threatening conditions. She is single, abusive family of origin and she is quite vulnerable especially looking at the future. I think there should be better security for her future as the immense stress of money is not helping her health at all. Like why can't PIP be given for life to someone in that situation? It is cruel.

What do you think?

Oh please, there’s loads of evidence that being in work has social and mental health benefits. Please heighten your rhetoric, it’s not hyperbolic enough.

@Nat6999 How incredibly disrespectful and insensitive to Holocaust survivors. Work has huge benefits for people's health. Some people cannot work due to their disabilities. Both things can be true. You don't need to bring the Holocaust into this, how insensitive.

Obviously disability varies a lot, but being disabled can cost more than being able bodied so sometimes more is needed to reach the same standard or prevent death. From having to use certain types of transport, to needing to pay for care which could be a cleaner and someone to sort and put away shopping you paid to have delivered, to needing more heating, to needing more spece to store two types of wheelchair and some physio equipment to having to use the washing machine more due to incontinence, to needing specific food you can prepare easily. There is so much in life I can just do for free, being able bodied.
My friends adult son is still in nappies. He gets allocated a specific number which is not enough and the ones she buys to top up are very expensive, as are the adult sized popper vests to stop smearing.

And carers allowance should also be a living wage of the person you are caring for is so severely disabled that hey require round the clock care. There should be a level about the "35 hours"

Life with a disability is often more expensive.

I have to pay for supermarket deliveries, this means I never get the discounted food.

If I'm not able to cook then I need to use meals on wheels at £5.25 per day or ready meals that are not particularly healthy.

The adaptions to my car when I had one cost £1500.

I can't walk to the local shops or the pub (I supose you think I should not be allowed a drink or a social life) so I need to use a cab or be pushed in my wheelchair.

Other disabilities have other needs, if you are Deaf your phone is a minicom, they have got cheaper but you are looking at £40 whereas a cheap landline is £5, your calls are also longer.

You can't use the alarm on your phone you need a vibrating alarm clock, you also need a vibrating pad on your baby monitor and on your smoke alarm.

If you are blind braille books are double the price of ordinary books. You can't use your local library, you have to order books rom the RNIB.

You can't look at the tins in your cuupboard and know what they are you need to have them labled in braille, use a device that sits on top and has a voice recordig or use a text to voice reader, they are about £1000.

I'm sure there are costs with all disabilities.

But paying for a cleaner/buying adult nappies, isn't that what PIP is for? Otherwise what is PIP for if not for paying for additional expenses because a person is disabled? What I mean is that PIP levels living expenses up, and the Motability cars that can have all the adaptations made. So other benefits should be the same as if not disabled.

It is what PIP is for. But I had understood your stance to mean the disabled person shouldnt be entitled to benefits that took them over minimum wage as other minimum wage workers would be subsidising them. Which PIP would do in some instances.

The issue is that everything needs to be judged relatively ie against the society we currently have, not an aspirational one where there is unlimited cash and everyone deserves a lifestyle of an incredibly high standard. Compared to the society we have, I think around £1,200p/m excluding housing costs is very generous as that’s not what most people have who work FT.

Yes - because if they were receiving FT NMW, they'd still be worse off than non disabled people earning FT NMW.

That's the point - to ensure nobody is disadvantaged due to the extra costs of their disability.

Having a maximum of FT NMW as income;

Person A income (disabled, could be working PT or FT or not at all) 15,000 (for example).
Costs of disability -5,000.
Net income 10,000

Person B income (not disabled) 15,000.
Costs of disability 0 as they are not disabled.
Net income 15,000

Preferred situation - the one for equality rather than deliberately ensuring that no disabled person can ever be in the same position as the theoretical 'higher valued' non disabled person;

Person A income 15,000
Costs of disability -5,000
Additional income to account for costs of disability 5,000
Net income 15,000

There is, as a result, an incentive for the disabled person to work if they are able to, as they are not penalised by having 5k of unmet costs meaning their standard of living/income can never be as good as somebody who is not disabled. They are actually, for a change, treated fairly and put in the same position financially as somebody who does not have to spend an additional five grand on simply being able to get themselves up, washed, dressed, travel to work, work, come home, shop, cook, clean, medicated, etc.

I was thinking more along lines of disabled already get PIP for additional expenses but then either work if they can work or get UC at the same rate as anyone else claiming it for general living costs.

@NeverDropYourMooncup, I actually meant any UC benefits they were claiming should be the same as if they are not disabled/same rates as those who work full time on minimum wage because the PIP payments disabled people get pay for their additional costs of the disability. I didn't mean they shouldn't have PIP. I probably just expressed my thoughts badly.

No not really. My “salary” is £16,000 a year. It’s lower than NMW because it’s classed as an allowance, without giving too much away. It’s a political role. In practice I work many more hours than 37 per week.

I’d give anything to not have a body ravaged by cancer.

Isn't that what already happens though @Clarabe1 ? Those unemployed without sickness or disability can get Jobseekers Allowance and those who are sick or disabled get Employment Support Allowance or UC, disabled component ?

I think considering how difficult it is to get PIP all disabled people who can should be encouraged to work. It’s the only way to lift them out of poverty. But honestly I wish everyone on benefits got at least minimum wage. It’s awful that the gov doesn’t do this.

Of course not.

But that question can also be asked about someone working full time on minimum wage, through no fault of their own. That might be all their mentally/physically capable of through no fault of their own. They're often just scraping by on the basics with no joy in their lives ... and working for the 'privilege'.

I'm truly sorry about your health. I cannot imagine how horrific it is to live with cancer. I hope you get as well as possible. I know that's a far fetched word after cancer treatment though.
I think £700 every 4 weeks is a lot of money.

I think the issue is less with benefits and more with employers/employment oppotunities.
Somebody who is completely incapable of providing for themselves should have a basic quality of life provided for them, but somebody who is well enough for a social life and trips out etc is well enough to be doing something to support themselves, ergo they shouldn't need benefits to provide those things - the problem is that many employers aren't willing to compromise enough to enable them to work.

Agree. This is a real travesty that few are aware of. I remember reading an article about this situation with some saying they will never be able to live with their partners. If someone qualifies for disability benefits this shouldn’t be affected by their partners income. It’s undignified and ripe for financial abuse of vulnerable people.

That’s it basically. The person on min wage shouldn’t earn less than the disabled person, but they should both be able to live as you describe. Don’t you agree?

I disagree. I think if a disabled person has a lifetime disability preventing them from working, around average full time wage should be provided, as that is what they might have attained had they been able or had society not prevented them.

Also, disabled people should be able to keep core benefits while earning on top to a certain amount, rather than be prevented from working by fear of losing income security.

I think you should get the equivalent of someone working full time min wage, with a top up funding any needs related to the disability eg, mobility needs.

High enough for them to be adequately housed, able to keep their home warm, eat a healthy diet, pay someone to do the things they can't, access to the internet and help to leave the house if required.

The £700 I get ever month pays for and adapted wheelchair accessible vehicle, adult nappies,wipes, creams, bags etc, a cleaner, gardener, someone to do odd jobs like decorating, adaptations in my home including a stair lift, the extra costs of home shopping, luggage a carer to accompany me when I go out.
I can assure you, it takes every penny of that £700 and then some! I would be happy to lose every penny of it if I could do those things myself

God.