To think hotels are very child unfriendly

[Ontheclifftop]

We've just come back from a weekend away in a hotel with dd aged 5 and ds aged 3. Three incidents really made me realise how unwelcoming hotels are to young families:

1. When we were checking in after a long drive the kids were letting off a bit of steam. I know how that sounds, but they were just running around a bit, not getting in anyone's way or anything. Two people who were sitting on couches reading newspapers got up and left, one sighing heavily and one giving us a dirty look.
2. At about 7ish the following morning we got a call from reception to say the people in the next room were complaining about the noise. Again I know how that sounds, but dd and ds were playing quietly with some teddies. DS let out one squeal of excited laughing but other than that they were perfectly fine.
3. Following that call I said I'd take them down to the swimming pool as I knew it opened early. When I got down the attendant said it was adult only between 7.30 and 9.00. I explained about the phone call and pointed out there were only 2 people in the pool and I'd do my best to ensure we'd stay down at the shallow end and not get in their way. But he refused to let us in.

The whole thing really pissed me off. What are you supposed to do with young children in a hotel? If they play quietly in the room someone complains. If you try to use the facilities to keep them occupied, you're told you can't.

AIBU to feel hotels are just totally unwelcoming to young families nowadays?

The pictures made me think I definitely wouldn’t go in. The photo of him having coffee on balcony overlooking pyramid was much more my speed!

Obviously there is a time and place.

The pp who said why do children even need to be in a supermarket? Good god, how do people think children learn about taking part in our society? By partaking in it, of course. Yes, you don't take a trolley pushing 3yr old round the supermarket at 5-15 rush hour. But at the same time children are learning from the behaviour of others and how those others treat them.
Honestly, I do wonder how many people who post on Mumsnet are actually parents. And how many divisive incels post here masquerading as women to cause trouble.

I'm a single mum, would you prefer I left my 4 year old home alone or in the car?

I suppose my only question here is: if adults can’t stand upright then how could they hold their kids and walk through? Presumably you can’t have a pram in there and kids may find being carried at a 90 degree angle alarming and start crying, which is all anyone needs in a confined space!

It doesn’t really sound like a spot that’s suitable for young kids.

I did it in my twenties in the summer. Wouldn’t do it now in my fifties for all the money in the world!

@Susannainblue Don’t worry, most of us non-parents are sensible and tolerant and understand the need for kids to be in shared spaces.

I’ve lost count of the number of times my child has needed a few extra moments to do something (E.g. get some bananas off the shelf and put them into her own trolley at Lidl) and adults have sighed about having to wait for her a second, like she’s a second class citizen

In my opinion, this isn’t about her being a second class citizen, it’s about the fact that you are not teaching her to be cognizant of others around her who also need to use the space. By letting your daughter go really slowly when there are clearly people who are anxious to get to where you are, you are not teaching her the rules that society will expect of her as she grows up. With mine, I tend to say something like, “Oh look, this lady also would also like to get some bananas. Let’s let her go ahead of us since we are taking a bit longer to make our choices.”

Someone else upthread mentioned a play area in supermarkets somewhere in another country. Well is that for children to be left by the parents while they shop? Who is monitoring and keeping an eye on all these children if so? What happens when one gets hurt? When one clobbers another one so there's an injury? I could just imagine some parents dumping their kids there all day as well if it's free "childcare". If it's only a play area where parents have to sit and supervise then I'm not sure what good it will do? Parents will need to get to the supermarket earlier then still go shopping with the child. And if they can do that then why not just stop at a park or similar on the way?

I think that was me referring to a supermarket in Greece. The play area was supervised.

Is it Sweden that has train carriages that are essentially soft play? Always thought that’d solve so many problems here.

Come on! Toddlers and young kids don't need to learn supermarket skills at the expense of the general public.

Ds is at the point now where I am trying to train him in basics of doing some shopping (he is 13 and autistic) we purposely go when it’s quiet with a short list. I make sure I reiterate “this lady is just getting her apples then you can get some” type messages because being aware of others is just as important a part of the learning.

if we teach children that the world has to always stop and wait for them then they grow into adults who are unable to consider others. Because of his needs it’s always going to be harder for DS to understand such things but that doesn’t mean I don’t need to help him learn that other people need to be taken into consideration when in public.

The pp who said why do children even need to be in a supermarket? Good god, how do people think children learn about taking part in our society? By partaking in it, of course. Yes, you don't take a trolley pushing 3yr old round the supermarket at 5-15 rush hour. But at the same time children are learning from the behaviour of others and how those others treat them

I commented on exactly this point on the school uniform thread the other day.

How does anyone learn to wear a uniform for work if they've never done it for school.

How does anyone ever learn to buy something if they don't spend every Saturday morning in a supermarket being a pain in the proverbial and getting in everyone's way.

Answer to both - they learn when they need to,

In my opinion most hotels are child and dog-friendly but that does not mean that you allow your kids to run around and make loads of noise. And definitely not at 3am when you have a room above mine, allowing kids to galump around knocking furniture over.

I think it might be Finland that has the child carriages. They used to have something similar in the Interregio trains in Germany as well.

Certainly kids under about 8 should not be in quiet carriages on trains (although to be fair a lot of adults shouldn't, either).

Of course they do. It’s a shared space. Parents should be parenting but as long as they are then of course kids can be there with them.

There’s no “expense” to everyone else as long as parenting is happening.

Are you doing this sort of thing when the supermarket is really busy, by any chance? The only time I’ve seen people get annoyed by this - and things like letting kids use the self checkout or beep the card on the reader - is when the parent is making a big song and dance of it and oblivious to the queue building to behind them.
Agree with this. Not every minute of every day needs to be turned into an explicit teaching moment or immersive experience.

DC take the small trolley round the supermarket with me and it saves me having a basket. Sometimes it's appropriate for them to take something off a low shelf. Other times the supermarket is clearly busy and me expecting everyone to wait whilst DC slowly decide exactly which apple they'd like for snack would be bloody unreasonable.

Same with self-service checkouts. Them helping me when it's quiet is fine. When there's a queue then only a self-centred parent or one with no situational awareness would think it's ok to play shops with their child.

Maybe one of the people getting annoyed at your child had somewhere they had to be? Maybe they had 5 mins to grab a few bits after work before having to pick up their special needs child from school. Maybe they were quickly grabbing some stuff for the husband in hospital and they were worried and stressed. Why should it only be up to up to them to make allowances for a child?

I see this lack of consideration a lot towards older people as they are often slow on stairs, public transport, take longer in the supermarket at the till etc

I don't know why single parents rise to the bait on this. You know we're talking about the family outings where nobody wants to be there, the kids are yelling, the parents are cross and the sales staff are getting headaches.

Shop online or send one of the adults.

If you're a single parent you can still do online shopping i guess.

Exactly. No one needs "supermarket skills" under the age of 12, and even that is questionable. Holding up everyone else to let a six-year-old push a trolley or select bananas is supremely inconsiderate.

I see this lack of consideration a lot towards older people as they are often slow on stairs, public transport, take longer in the supermarket at the till etc

usually they take longer at the till because they want to have a chat. There is a market for a chatty slow till I think!

Situational awareness! That’s the phrase I was trying to think of before and the key part to all of this really

I think they are slower in general at the supermarket eg picking things up, reading labels. Obviously many aren't as quick as they once were physically.
At the till it's often rummaging for purse, card, slow packing, chatting with people behind getting annoyed. But sad really

Situational awareness! That’s the phrase I was trying to think of before and the key part to all of this really

I meet adults like this all the time tbf, cycling on pavements, huge rucksacks on the tube, stopping at bottom of escalator etc. I don't think it's because they were allowed to pick bananas at supermarkets.

I think we need tills for people who want a chat

It's exactly these instances that annoy me greatly. The excuses that are expected to make it all ok and therefore implying others are unreasonable.

Why would people get up to go elsewhere if they were not genuinely disturbed? So it wasn't really 'just a little run around, nothing really'.

Sane with waking up people next door. Why would they bother to call to complain if it was only one little shriek and nothing more.

You need to face the reality that what you consider insignificant events are genuine disturbances for others.

It’s the time and place thing isn’t it?
Busy train station where people are running down steps with cases to make connection is not time to let toddler practice walking on steps.
Awareness of overall situation is needed.