Worried my Sons will be left with nothing

[JaffaCake70]

My Husband and I are both early 50s and have been married just over a year (together 3 years in October).

Before we met I had been renting private accommodation. When we married I moved into my Husband's house which he had been paying the mortgage on for around 5 years, he had also paid a large deposit when he moved into the property as he had sold a previous property. We now both contribute to the mortgage and all other household expenses. We re-mortgaged to the tune of £10,000 to pay for our wedding and honeymoon.

We haven't really had any serious conversations about finances apart from the agreement of how much I would pay into the home but now I'm starting to worry. I know I need to speak to my Husband about the things I'm about to discuss with you, but I just wanted to see if anyone can advise me where I stand legally before I have the conversation.

My Husband has an adult Son and Daughter, his Daughter lives with us, I have 2 adult Sons, neither of whom live with us.

We both have decent pensions, if anything should happen to him before he cashes his, I would receive it and vice versa (he would receive mine). This has all been put into place.

He has told me that if he should die before me, the proceeds of the house are being split 3 ways between me, his Son and his Daughter.

My worry is: What is being left to my Sons should I die first?

This is really playing on my mind because the way it looks to me on paper is that they wouldn't get anything.

Is there anything I can do to change this? Can I split my pension 3 ways so that my Sons get a 3rd each?

What will happen to my 3rd of the house if I were to die first? I am now paying into the house, surely my Sons should be entitled to something in the event of my death? How does it work though? For example, if I were to die in 10 years time (God forbid) but my Husband then went on to live for another 20 years, maybe even marries again, what happens to my 3rd of the property?

I'm really worried that I've put my Sons in the position of not receiving anything at all if I were to die before my Husband. I don't have any savings to bequeath to them, the only money I have of my own is my pension.

Do I have any legal standing in stating that I want my 3rd of the property to be divided between my Sons in the event of my death. I still feel it's a little unfair that my Sons would be receiving less than my Husband's children (as in his children would still receive a 3rd each, my Sons would have to share my 3rd).

I'm stressing myself out with all of this, I know I need to speak to my Husband but don't want to come across as money grabbing as I'm really not. I just want to know that my Sons will be provided for financially in the event of my death.

YABU - Your Sons should not be entitled to anything from the house

YANBU - You work just as hard as your Husband and are now paying an equal amount into the home therefore your Sons definitely are entitled to a percentage of the house.

But more than YA/YANBU opinions, please can anyone advise as to what I should do/say in this situation?

I don’t think you are being unreasonable. Your husband has only been paying the mortgage 5 years and you one. On the scale of things long term that’s not a lot of difference. The only difference is the deposit. The deposit should be his/his children’s. However going forward all equity should be 50/50. That means god forbid he dies tomorrow well then they get most likely all the equity as that will be the deposit (as I’m thinking it’s mostly interest at this point being paid anyway) but in 20years then any equity above the deposit is 50/50 between him and you and therefore his and your children.
The fact you were renting before is irrelevant. Who knows what life would have brought. Right now and going forward you are paying a mortgage to buy a house. You are buying the house as much as your husband is and are entitled to all that entails.
People are worried you are taking advantage of your husband, I’m seeing the possibility of it being the other way round. Unless his deposit is a 3rd of the property then you are entitled to more than a 3rd (when it’s all paid). I also don’t see how he can say you are on the mortgage if you haven’t signed anything. Make sure everything is in writing.

It's considered to be the man, regardless on the basis that statistically, men die earlier.

I always say that you make your own way in life. If your left with an inheritance well good luck if not well not everyone is and seem to survive.

But why should I work hard/long hours and pay money into a property for the next god knows how many years if my children aren't going to gain anything at the end of it?

You mean like you did when you rented?

It’s not. It’s the eldest.

https://www.rochelegal.co.uk/news/does-it-matter-who-dies-first-with-your-inheritance-plans/#:~:text=It%20is%20called%20the%20%27commorientes,the%20eldest%20person%20died%20first.

There are different types of life assurance. Term life assurance eg means that you pay the premiums each month for a given term so say 10 years. If you die within these 10 years, your sons would get the money. If you stop paying for any reason you are no longer covered and they get nothing.

However there is also Whole of Life cover - much more expensive and you pay it till you die but here the premiums are money invested so if you stop paying in there will still be some money for your sons.

The important thing in both cases is that you write the policies in trust for your sons ie they do not form part of your estate if you die but are paid out directly to your sons on production of your death certificate.

In the case of your pension, typically it will pay out a pension and tax free lump sum to you when you retire. If your husband outlives you he may also get a pension from your scheme - the amount is usually 50-100% of yours but not necessarily.

Public Sector schemes will give him or you a pension (typically 50% of what the pensioner gets ) even if you die after taking your own pension but with many private money purchase schemes you decide at the moment when you start taking your pension whether you want to also make provision for your widow(er). NB Many people decide not to make a provision for their spouses as it inevitably reduces the amount they get themselves.

You need to find out what sort of pension scheme your husband is in because though it is likely that you would get a pension / lump sum if he dies in service, you may get nothing on his death after retirement.

If your sons are adults it is unlikely that your sons would be entitled to a pension if you die.( unless they are financially dependant ie disabled and with only a very small income.) As mentioned above usually it is only a spouse or dependant children who can get a pension when people die in service.

However, if you die before you yourself start taking a pension there may be the value of the company or private pension fund which can be allocated to either your estate ( if you do nothing, in which case your husband may get it or you may will it elsewhere ) or can be paid out directly to your sons if you so direct. You can usually nominate them online or if you contact your pension company or your pension providers.

Most Unions have people who can advise you re pensions schemes and most public and private schemes will also be helpful if you contact them directly. It is very important that you are informed about both your own and your husbands scheme/.

Otherwise an IFA ( Independent Financial Adviser) is the way to go. They will also be able to advise you how to get the best annuity rates from a pension fund.

Sure thing but 10k is not a huge amount of mortgage on a house ! So I guess it depends also on the value of the house and also what you are currently paying as you keep mentioning it's a substantial amount which indicates you're paying towards the whole mortgage not the 10k extra. Without all the info it's hard to judge what your contributions are worth so for example: If the house is worth 500k and there's a 200k mortgage left and youre paying half the mortgage amount then once mortgage is paid off then your contributions will be worth 100k on the 500k house which is 20pc of the house. There's also duration of marriage to consider, if you or he die in the next few years vs 20 years time and that may affect how you both feel about it.

As a PP indicated, have a good sit down and talk through all of this with DH! Try forecasting on a 5 /10 /20 year basis or something like that.

I think your worry could come to fruition if you die first. Personally I would not remarry and would ha e my assets as just mine so I could leave them in my will to my 2 DS. Otherwise it your estate goes to your DH and then nothing to your children. Even if he agreed that they do get something in a will then once dead that will could be changed by him.

I don't know if you mean to OP but you are coming across a little Anna Nicole Smith - as in did you marry this man purely for his assets and with a view that you're going to out live him by 20 years? I wonder if his children have had a word with your DH and that's why you've been fed the lie that you are 'on the mortgage'.

I'm very much of the belief that you can't rely on another person for your financial welfare. I would suggest that you seek independent legal advice. I would also suggest you start paying into a life insurance policy or similar in order to provide for your children rather than relying on the death of your new husband to do this for you.

Congrats on your marriage, and I’m sorry to hear about the early death of your children's father.

I think that you’ve both been unwise not to discuss money, and a bit naive, but all this is salvageable. Find out whether you are on the deeds/mortgage (you probably aren’t). See a solicitor on your own. You’re right not to want to pay towards a house in which you have no financial interest when you could be paying into a policy for your children.

People take out mortgages in 20's/30's, all well being in 50's/60's - it's paid off and mortgage free e.g. asset to pass down onto children.

He's presumably paid for 30+ years, yet you want to benefit from it when you haven't contributed.

You living to 80+ is unrealistic at best.

If I remarried and a man wanted me to share my asset when I've been with him for 3 years, yet saved 30+ years. I'd choose my children every time.

Who is Anna Marie Smith? @Wonderfulstuff

I don't think the OP married for money. Rather a nasty suggestion. She wants her sons to inherit what she has put into the purchase of the house.

Life insurance that is started in your 50s is not a sensible investment. It only covers death up to a certain age and the returns are very low.

Also, while it's completely fair for OP to look out for her own interests, when it comes to the inheritance it's very noticeable that absolutely everything's about her own DCs rather than those of her DH, whose interests barely get a mention

Obviously none of us know OP's full day to day situation, but if the above shows up in real life I have to wonder if it has anything to do with why she chose not to discuss this before the marriage ... as in might the DH have wondered "Hang on, where's this going?"

You and your husband need to speak to a solicitor and draw up wills together to ensure a split of finances whichever way you intend.
Anything you decide about your pension also needs to be communicated to the pension provider.
What you intend is certainly possible: My DM was in a similarish situation to you when she married her husband. Their wills ensure that my siblings and I will inherit equal proportions of her share of the house/assets, while my step siblings will equal proportions of their father's significantly larger share of the house assets. The wills have been drawn up in a way that ensures that this happens regardless of which spouse dies first and in a way to ensure the surviving spouse can continue to live in the house/have access to the equity from the sale of house until their death.
HOWEVER I don't agree that your adult sons should necessarily inherit any of your husband's assets/share of equity. Obviously, he may wish to leave them something (a percentage, a set amount etc.) But it would be quite unusual and certainly likely to cause many arguments if your sons - who, by the sounds of it were already adults when your husband came into your life - were to benefit from your husband's more significant assets.

TLDR: Speak to a solicitor specialising in wills and probate.

@anonymousxoxo Life expectancy for women in the UK is around 85. OP is quite likely to reach her 80s.

OP says the mortgage on this house has been running for 5 years, not 30.
His deposit came from the sale of a former house (not sure if that was a house he owned with the mother of his children or not.)

Be interesting to know if he was 'stung' financially after that break up and he's being very cautious now.

My apologies if I’ve missed something OP but I can’t see that you categorically know that you are a joint owner of the property or on what basis( there are 2 different ways for people to hold property which varies how the property passes on death) . It sounds like your husband is just telling you you are on the Mortgage . These changes shouldn’t have happened without you signing documents ( a Mortgage Deed) and probably also a Transfer Deed) and having legal advice . The fact that you don’t seem to know worries me . You need to see an up to date copy of the deeds and you need to see a solicitor who can explain it all to you . A solicitor will be able to check the title online if your husband conveniently doesn’t have a copy.

You also need a Will .

This isn’t a scenario where you can chat to your husband and resolve the situation without having some legal advice.

Okay, so where did he get the large deposit from? He probably renewed is mortgage?

You should sit down and go through your wills as a matter of course anyway. Both of you should know what is in the other one’s will. Both me and my husband revise every 10 years. Ideally you should go through with the children as well as my parents have done with me. That saves any aggro afterwards. You can discuss all this as part of the conversation and then draft wig a solicitor so no ambiguity.

@anonymousxoxoMy post which you quoted said where he got the large deposit! As does the OP's post.

(You can't get a deposit by borrowing it on a mortgage. If that is what you meant.)

A man I was dating last year was paying £1000 a month in rent. If he had have moved in with me his contribution towards the mortgage would be approx £250 if he went halves on the mortgage. I think that's a pretty good deal, he would be saving a small fortune monthly. But I still wouldn't have put him on the deeds or the mortgage. My mortgage is low because of my large deposit. I don't see why someone else should benefit from that other than my children.

He said your name is now on the mortgage?
Just like that without you signing anything?
You're now responsible for paying a mortgage and you don't have any paperwork?

The money you’re paying would be seen by the courts as you paying rent for living in the property, it doesn’t give you any ownership rights over the property unless you’re on the deeds.

So he had 2 houses and 2 mortgages he worked hard for. Further proves his point.

From what I can gather, I think OP might be totally confused about the difference between the loan they got to pay for the wedding (10k, in their names, secured against his house so technically also a mortgage although most would probably think of it more like a personal loan) and the actual mortgage (being paid monthly to the bank, taken out at the time of the house purchase).

If this is the error the OP has made then the whole thing (kind of...) makes sense. So she would be on a mortgage, but it would not have any impact on their ownership of the house. It could have been quite a straightforward loan application without the same amount of paperwork.

I think this is the most likely scenario, and explains why OP thinks she has made some major contribution to the house while he does not. Because she also at another point thought that paying off this loan added equity to the house, whereas it is actually the opposite.

Looking at some of the responses they could seriously misinform you. Tread carefully, I would suggest finding a firm of solicitors who have a CILEX person (not a solicitor but legally qualified so often cheaper) to help.

Start off by mapping out your concerns and what you think is reasonable. If you were to divorce today it is unlikely a court would see you as entitled to 1/3. However, if you were to be married for 20 years and one of you die that would look very different after paying some of the mortgage.

Remember:
1 ) he has paid in much more than you now, any future contribution you add via mortgage payments are a contribution, you presumably want the time to reflect the allowance.
2 ) If you inherit 1/3 then you may be made homeless when he dies, there are solutions to this that legal advice is needed for.
3 ) upon death often there are fallings out and families can end up suing each other to massive financial cost and destruction of relationships.

Perhaps map out your concerns and needs with your husband and a third party that does not cast as much as a lawyer (someone from citizens advice?) and write out what risks you need covered. Then take that to a lawyer to get arranged.