To think people who want "safe routes to migration" into the UK are hopelessly naive

[ForestGoblin]

We could spend every penny of public money on bringing refugees to the UK in comfy and safe boats and planes. We could make it mandatory for every home to provide accommodation and food. We could ban healthcare for anyone except refugees.

And there would still be thousands and thousands of boat crossings every year and millions more people languishing in bad situations and trying to figure out how to get here or elsewhere in northern Europe.

It's a crap situation. Life is bad. I feel dreadful for them.

But "safe routes" is a load of glib nonsense that can't work.

Interesting thread OP. Can someone explain how this situation happens please?
I am involved with a charity and recently have received a number of the same email from different people saying they arrived at Heathrow and then claimed asylum. These people are now being housed in a hotel but want further assistance, which is why they’re contacting me. My question: how do they board a flight with doc’s and then claim asylum on entry? Surely their travel doc’s would show their status? Or can any person claim asylum on arrival and be moved to a hotel immediately, as it would seem these are?
If so, then surely off shore asylum applications (or any applications) would help?

@ForestGoblin "Idealising other countries is a fool's game."

Not sure why you mean- but anyway. There is a popular narrative that the UK takes more aslylum seekers/refugees/migrants than anyone else. Just wanted to point out that it's not true.

Not recognising when your country is struggling is foolish.

The Tories have broken every single public agency. Immigration control is broken - deliberately.

But look at schools, NHS, passports, DVLA, police, courts...

Asking 'why is it so much worse in the UK than it was 10 years ago, and in comparison to peer nations, is a sensible part of the thought process.

They do but Germany, for example, has a much bigger economy so can afford to take more.

I visited Rome recently. I don't think the shanty town was an aspirational idyll...

The solution is we accept a capped number of real refugees (with a focus on women and children). Perhaps 50-60k a year. We should then be much harder on anyone who turns up on a boat from Calais who is already in a safe country.

We could have offshore processing. The French have offered it to us several times. We keep refusing.
we could have ID cards which would reduce the grey market and decrease the draw to the U.K. but we can’t have those because ‘reasons’.

I would have thought the African man needed to claim benefits. If he had a job he’d be an economic migrant.

No one voted Brexit where you live???

Once people start talking about 'indigenous populations' it all starts to sound a bit racist.

The economics of government failure is in front of our eyes. More of the same is not going to help.

Tent cities and shanty towns in other countries and rising tension are going to be issues, they already are, but increasingly so no matter how fast the processing is

Student visas and tourist visas. Some will try this route and if they can get it, they will fly in and claim asylum. Those that can’t will spend more to come on boats.

Their immigration policy is part of the reason they have a stronger economy.

That is not much more different than what happens now. Because the hindered of thousands that still enter illegally will be considered to be refugees. The hard of thinking will insist that everyone should be let in just because they say are refugees.

I would welcome ID cards - very easy way to check if anyone is here legally or illegally - many other countries have them and the lack of them has been acknowledged time and again as a major reason why illegal migrants are drawn to the UK. But we'll never get them here because they'd discriminate against those here illegally and OMG we can't do that now can we????

It’s awful that people who think if we have a safe system mean everyone on the planet will want to come to the UK. Do really listen to yourself.

you are an Afghan translator worked with British army left to rot despite UK Gov saying will provide a way. You will be accepted but first you have to get across the channel. You may die but that’s the odds. In cases like this why can’t they apply to a UK office in France? No they are not going process everyone who applies but those who would get accepted on British soil would be spared risking their life. What’s so awful about that suggestion?

yes we still have those who not get visa through safe route who try by boat but we save some people women and kids from dying.
Heaven help us if we ever need to claim safe space in France giving how we treat others.

You could set up processing station in France (they've offered), do biometric tests when someone makes their application, make a basic application check over a few days (they can be told to come back in a few days), and if they pass this they are given a flight or boat ticket.
Problem of dangerous crossings and smugglers solved for that piece of the puzzle.

We would have biometric data then, so anyone who arrives in the country without data, or who has been refused entry can be removed immediately rather than spending years waiting for decisions. But this government would rather blame vulnerable people for its own shortcomings and spread hate in order to misdirect than actually solve the issue of small boat crossings.

But if ID cards aren’t stopping people drowning in the Med why would they work to stop it here?

The only real long-term solution to the crisis would be a dramatic reduction in the human population. There are simply too many of us.

That’s not the reason we can’t have them here. It’s because of concerns about ‘nanny state’ and government keeping tracks on people. Mind you, our government would probably manage to spectacular fuck it up by overpaying to people with no experience.

The economy that is in recession right now, you mean.

Low skilled migration does not benefit the economy. It sometimes helps in fabricating total GDP numbers, like it is done in the UK. But it always leads to lower per capita GDP and lower living standards for those already living in that country. Low skilled migration only provides cheap labour for large employers, mostly dependent on benefits, and additional consumers in the economy due to immigrant families having large families. All paid for by the incumbent population.

The alternative of course would be for large businesses to invest in automation. But that’s too expensive, right? They would rather spend some of that money lobbying governments to import cheap labour.

The Tories don't want solutions, they need to keep the problem bubbling.

Oldest trick in the book.

Why people are so easily fooled i don't know. It's like pretending to throw a ball!

Safe routes worked for Ukrainians.

You are right OP that there will always be refugees and there will always be economic migrants and the problem will never be eradicated but that isn’t a reason not to try and it isn’t a reason not to live up to the responsibility we have.

If taking in lots of refugees is detrimental to our country then that’s just the price we have to pay for starting illegal wars and fucking up the stability in other people’s countries.

Now we have a number of people who effectively jump the queue. Inevitably they are mostly male and in many cases not the most deserving of asylum. We also struggle to properly screen people. The current system in theory would allow anyone with a claim to come. That is not realistic. As climate change increases large numbers of migrants would be able to argue they are refugees under what is a very broad definition.

Didn’t really work for Ukrainians. We tried to get as few as possible and then haven’t granted them refugee status. Just given them a 3 year visa so we can kick them out.

This cartoon sums up the current policy to immigration and why it is shite for everyone (except the rich racists)

You are surely not trying to suggest that the German economy has dropped behind the UK economy?

Immigration is not the cause of recession in Germany, as you surely know.