To think people who want "safe routes to migration" into the UK are hopelessly naive

[ForestGoblin]

We could spend every penny of public money on bringing refugees to the UK in comfy and safe boats and planes. We could make it mandatory for every home to provide accommodation and food. We could ban healthcare for anyone except refugees.

And there would still be thousands and thousands of boat crossings every year and millions more people languishing in bad situations and trying to figure out how to get here or elsewhere in northern Europe.

It's a crap situation. Life is bad. I feel dreadful for them.

But "safe routes" is a load of glib nonsense that can't work.

I'm sure there are plenty of people reading this who simply cannot be bothered to engage. You have no interest in changing your position, so why discuss it with you.

Whereas the Tories have picked the kneejerk 'let people drown while the British taxpayer pays ever higher costs' without doing the hard work of planning or facing up to the real world red lines.

The Tories have totally lost control and after 13 years in power - actually creating what we see before us - try to blame the opposition

Can you say how many people this would need to apply to before no one would pay a smuggler?

I knew an African gentleman. He left Africa to get to a financially better country. He lived in Germany for 2 years, but complained that they wouldn't allow him to live on benefits. He came here to the UK, and has expressed gratitude at living on benefits. He's been here for 22 years now, and never had a job. Why do we welcome people in, that contribute nothing?! We should be be more like America/Canada/Australia and use a points system. So if they are skilled in a job that's understaffed, we let them in. But not if they have zero skills and no intention of a job.

My position is that 2bn extra people cannot live in the UK.

Not a belief, simply "math" issue.

So do we just do first come first served with a quota?

If so, how would this prevent small boat deaths?

Just because you can’t help everybody, it doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t help anybody.
Many people would support a more rigorous immigration and asylum policy if there were legal means for desperate people to escape war and starvation.

No they are not supposed to stop at the first country. This is a well repeated myth.

Also the 70% refers to all migration. Of those arriving on small boats the majority are asylum seekers with few other options for entering the U.K. and claiming asylum.

I agree the govt uses this as a distraction. But people are drowning so it's worth reflecting on.

I'm sure your fictional gentleman is very happy in his fictional world.

Specifically what category of visa was he granted?

Looking at the list of countries where most of the small boat arrivals come from, there's an obvious split between countries where people might have a legitimate wish for asylum (the majority), and the countries where the motives are going to be more questionable (basically Albanian nationals, though mostly previously resident in other countries).

You need a two pronged approach: provide a safe route to take our fair share of asylum seekers who are in genuine need, and also introduce identity cards to make the UK a less attractive location for people who are looking to work in the black economy. This would have other side benefits - eg the Windrush scandal could never have happened if we had a straightforward ID card system, and we wouldn't have as many children slipping through the cracks. Everywhere else in Europe manages to have ID cards without slipping down a slippery fascist slope (or if they do slip down a fascist slope it's not the ID cards that are taking them there).

An efficient system for weeding out people who aren't eligible for asylum so they no they will get sent back quickly.
Collaboration with other countries to break up the people smuggling gangs/make it a unattractive business model. Last week a minister said in an interview" we want to be Turkey's partner of choice in this". Like countries can only co-operate with 1 other and it's a competition to be the one. With attitudes like that we will never achieve the international co-operation to achieve anything.
A sensible aid programme to make local displacement a less hellish option.
Recognition that countrieslike Chad, not exactly known for its wealth, take on a far bigger burden in this respect than we do and appropriate help given to them.

ID cards are not stopping rising numbers crossing the Med with many dying

If only it was 3 years. I have a friend from the DRC, survived torture and persecution, a fully qualified and competent teacher but unable to work and pay tax in the UK for 10 years while his asylum application went through. Now approved and allowed to work but still terrified to go out into the ‘hostile environment’ for fear of being deported.

Millions and millions of people are eligible. Who would you turn down? It's like you live in a dream world where only a couple of thousand are going through a rough patch.

My thoughts exactly 🤣

They wouldn't all come here, most European countries take in WAY more refugees than we do and it's not just European countries that take them in. Jordan has taken in millions.

And then that's where the infrastructure comes in. We need to build more houses, we need to train more doctors and nurses. It's not an instant fix and wouldn't be even if we stopped taking in refugees completely. We need to train people so let's get on and train them. It's about looking at the long term, something successive government have failed to do.

Just checking- people do know that other countries take in more migrants and refugees than the UK does and handles the administration more efficiently than the UK does?

If you can see the Tories have created it as a distraction, why are you repeating their lines for them?

Why are you not more interested in why they are pulling your chain (yet again)?

They just want to whip up xenophobia as part of a core vote strategy.

Are you part of their core vote?

Idealising other countries is a fool's game.

What a load of tripe.

It used to be much much faster, our families took about eight weeks, not only that you were provided with an NI on decision day so you could find work straight away, as then you didn’t need to submit your visa, passport etc as part of the employment process.

This post could have been written by Tory HQ.

Are you suggesting the current system is a masterplan designed to protect the UK?

Every country that has deaths off shore will be talking about what to do, it’s not just the U.K.

Countries that put up accommodation such as tent cities will face issues, see protests in NY this week

Climate plus refugees is about as far from a distraction as it gets. It’s an incoming global issue

So is ignoring the good example they are setting, not learning from them and not copying what is proven to work.

Why are you such a tribalistic kneejerker? "Oh hard reality is Tory!" Resources are finite. Mass immigration needs intensive planning. Pretending that it doesn't is idiotic and harmful to indigenous and immigrant populations. Where I live, no one votes Tory and nobody voted Brexit. Bet you can't say the same. 🍖