To think people who want "safe routes to migration" into the UK are hopelessly naive

[ForestGoblin]

We could spend every penny of public money on bringing refugees to the UK in comfy and safe boats and planes. We could make it mandatory for every home to provide accommodation and food. We could ban healthcare for anyone except refugees.

And there would still be thousands and thousands of boat crossings every year and millions more people languishing in bad situations and trying to figure out how to get here or elsewhere in northern Europe.

It's a crap situation. Life is bad. I feel dreadful for them.

But "safe routes" is a load of glib nonsense that can't work.

Perhaps you have not read the whole thread so are unaware that by government estimates there are 700,000 empty homes in the UK. Or is that the crisis you are refering to?

What has that got to do with human rights?

I reported it directly to them, apparently it's considered a "personal attack" to suggest that human rights were enshrined in law to protect people from those who would seek to remove them from people they don't like.

Nothing at all wrong with calling for their removal, but against community guidelines to challenge that view it seems.

I wonder why first time buyers don’t get a go at bidding on empty homes. I’m sure they’re finding it super easy but couldn’t hurt

Sorry, are you asking what has calling for a country to leave the human rights convention to do with human rights?

Tbf, in the deleted post, I did ask the PP to clarify what they were talking about when they said they want the UK to "leave the UN CHR" i.e., were they meaning the OHCHR, UNHRC, UNHCR, or something else such as the ECHR, as well as if they realised the UN doesn't have the power to set laws, but it was deleted before they responded.

Sorry, are you asking what has calling for a country to leave the human rights convention to do with human rights?

That does appear to be the debate on this thread.

So what do you expect 2 or 3 Gendarmes to do when they find 80 migrants about to get on a boat in shallow water at 2am?

They've no means to arrest them or stop them if the migrants resist (highly likely) and this sort of activity is happen many times throughout the night, so unless many Police are nr by, there is little they can do, the migrants will be in and off very quickly.

I agree with Cloudy that expecting France to stop, as they leave, all migrants is pie in the sky.

Better to break up the trafficking gangs both here and in Europe (and stop the flow of dinghies to N. France) but we removed ourselves from Europol and criminal DB's and we also don't appear to be able to stop the gangs operating out of the UK either...

So we just start confiscating people's properties?

‘Breaking down gangs’ is as hard as catching all boats as they leave

It’s someone sourcing boats and talking to people on the street. For anyone you find there’ll be many more who would like to make money in the same way.

Joint approach i'd have thought? how many manufacturer's of larger rubber dinghies are there in the EU ? if they are imported, this will also be known about.... licence the importation and sale of dinghies and small boat engines....

If they are smuggled in, is it impossible to limit/stop this?

They use these boats because they are very cheap and easily transportable, they aren't RIBs, they are basically large inflatables, with limited genuine use.

If this was weapons shipments coming across the channel in such numbers, we'd soon find a way to stop...

Do we apply this level of defeatism to terrorism etc? or does this trade suit some?

@jgw1 ffs this old trope again !

If we leave UNCHR we can draft our own Bill of Rights.

We are on our way with the Illegal Migration Bill which has now gone through both HOP.

The stumbling block could be the Good Friday Agreement.

However, Sinn Fein has become the biggest party in Northern Ireland local government after stunning gains in council elections. It swept past the Democratic Unionist party (DUP) and became the first nationalist party to hold the most council seats, delivering a political and psychological blow to unionism.
It also has 27 out of 90 seats in Stormont

If this groundswell of support continues we could see the breakup of the Union and a move towards a united Ireland. So the Good Friday Agreement could become redundant, as a united Ireland would be part of the EU.

Watch this space.

Buying a boat isn’t illegal so how would you know who is the smuggler out of eg 5000 customers?

I’m sure if there’s identifying number on the one that lands here it’s easily removed

That would be one solution to the unequal distribution of housing in the UK.
There are of course others.

One could ask oneself why the very rich pay a smaller proportion of their income in taxes than teachers and nurses do.

Which facts are you objecting to?

What is the UN CHR in your mind?

If its the convention / council of human rights, then you do realise that it is not a legally binding instrument in of itself and that the UK would still have to adhere to the actual legislation related to human rights that applies here e.g., the human rights act, the equality act, the European convention on human rights, etc don't you?

So are you, in reality, calling for the removal of legislation designed to protect the rights of us all just so the government of the day can get "tough" on asylums seekers?

Do you not think it's incredibly dangerous and short sighted to call for the removal of these pieces of legislation? What happens if you get your way and next year the government decide to rip up legislation relating to working conditions, pay, maternity, disability, justice, etc? Will you still be championing it then?

It seems the diversion shows lack of strong arguments

Not that posters can’t think of them particularly, more there is really isn’t an easy way to cap numbers

No doubt it’s a difficult issue and if you want a capped number of asylum seekers to arrive it’s going to be fairly unanswerable.

Which protections would you like to lose?

That doesn't mean they are available.

There is a property in my road that's been empty for over a year. A couple own it. It was an inheritance from one of the parents'.
The couple have their own property but are doing this one up themselves to retire to. As there is no-one actually living there there is no Poll Tax to pay.
So as far as the Council's concerned it is recorded as empty. But it isn't available.

There are others around here empty for all sorts of reasons, delayed probate, divorce wrangling, the owners can't sell them because they are 'fixer-uppers etc etc.

We will draft our own Bill of Rights, as I said.

To say that the UK government will 'rip up legislation' is emotive nonsense.

Which of the current rights would you like to lose or replace?

If we leave UNCHR we can draft our own Bill of Rights.

Why? Why don't we qualify for the same rights?

Yet we manage to find housing for those 1.2 million. So are you really sure that we have a housing crisis as opposed to (1) a housing management problem and (2) a taxation system that allows too many people to evade tax?

You paint the picture of people having their treasured empty properties torn out of their hands. Yet there is so much unused office space that the owners would absolutely love to sell to councils. Plus an awful lot of derelict space. Proper investment funded through a fair taxation system could make such a difference.

Poll tax hasn't existed since 1993.

If the property is in England, then unless it has been empty for more than 2 years it would not count in the stats. Which is one of the reasons why the government's count of empty homes is an underestimate.

If the Council has defined it as empty (and therefore counting in the stats) however, then the owner will be paying double (or sometimes more) in Council tax.