To think people who want "safe routes to migration" into the UK are hopelessly naive

[ForestGoblin]

We could spend every penny of public money on bringing refugees to the UK in comfy and safe boats and planes. We could make it mandatory for every home to provide accommodation and food. We could ban healthcare for anyone except refugees.

And there would still be thousands and thousands of boat crossings every year and millions more people languishing in bad situations and trying to figure out how to get here or elsewhere in northern Europe.

It's a crap situation. Life is bad. I feel dreadful for them.

But "safe routes" is a load of glib nonsense that can't work.

@jgw1

Isn't that obvious? All the others have a visa and are filling an identified skills gap, studying etc. And also because that's the whole point of the thread - discussing whether in fact we should adopt policies that might massively increase the 60k number

What resources are we lacking?

When safer routes were more available the number crossing on boats was low or zero, why do you think that was?

In addition, if refugees know they are going to be locked up and deported when they arrive in the UK, they are going to take every opportunity to abscond as soon as they set foot in the UK, life will become much more dangerous as a result at the point they land as they will be trying to get away from the authorities. How is that a good thing?

Boats mean drownings. People would probably be ok with say 15k to 60k arriving in another way, but you’ll need a mechanism to stop boats at the same time. Aus have done this.

As for work visas majority of people are tend to split this out as ok as we have the need. Countries with good visa systems also do this. This will likely drop anyway as AI increases and replaces jobs.

So you are happy with economic migrants, but not migrants fleeing war and torture. Fair enough.

Would a useful way of considering what might work in stopping the boats, be to look at the systems that were in place before people started using small boats to get to the UK?

She is happy with people coming here who will contribute to our society, is that very difficult to understand for you?

She doesn't care if they are "economic migrants" because she's judging them based on their skills and abilities, heartless bigoted racist that she is...

You could give Aus Labor advice and see if they say yes sounds easy

We’d love to go back to boats and trying to stop never ending flow of smugglers

Give it a go

And Italy could take your advice too, I think they have some Med drownings

Maybe if your posts also contain time machines

So the criteria is "How useful is the migrant to UK Plc?" glad we got there....

But of course, thats not the Tories Rwandan policy, if a surgeon turns up in a boat or without the correct paper work, he will be deported and will never set foot in the UK again.

I wonder how many of the potential 5m Chinese we ve invited in, have any economic value at all to the UK?

On the subject of this thread, there are safe routes for surgeons to apply to the UK, and if we're going to pick surgeons I'd prefer we selected from all qualified applicants from around the world and not just the ones who happened to pitch up at Dover.

A work visa is likely cheaper than paying a smuggler too

Erm i didn't say we couldn't but the point is, that surgeon wouldn't be available to be picked and in many cases, there aren't the safe routes...

Home sec has been asked repeatedly about safe routes and has (eventually) admitted that for many individuals there are none, so no a work visa is not possible for many people.

What is the safe route for someone escaping Yemen, Somalia, Kurdistan, Afghanistan? and what are the timescales?

What is the visa application route for a trafficked sex worker coming on a boat to the UK ? (remember he she may have had no choice in getting on that boat)

What % of the world's trafficked sex workers do you think the UK has an obligation to resettle @Alexandra2001 ?

Would nice if you could answer what i asked.... instead of refusing to but then expecting me to answer your question...

However... The UK has signed various treaties, over many years and has an obligation to process all asylum claims, so whoever turns up claiming asylum has to have that claim processed as to its merit.

If you don't agree with that, say so and that you will tow back into international waters boats trying to get here, using force to do so.

I’m pretty sure there have been posts lamenting the increase of healthcare work visas from outside the EU

Probably the same posters who want surgeons arriving by boat

It also seems that sarcasm and satire are not understood by many of those who have a narrow obsessive mindset 😆

I see you still take everything very literally and don't understand the use of examples, still can't bring yourself to say you'd deport a e.g Yizidi rape victim.... even though thats exactly what the Rwanda policy will do.

But on visa's for health workers, did you listen to Crossing Continents about the brain drain from Zimbabwe? (on iplayer) how its destroying their economy, country and that the UK is at the forefront of taking healthcare (and other skilled) workers...

Its not something we should be proud off and will mean unskilled Zimbabweans will try to get here too.

I don’t need to ‘bring myself’ to say anything.

There can be routes set up as well as boats stopped.

Less money to smugglers, fewer drownings on the way. Probably why no one in Aus wants to revert to your model.

It would be concerning to find out one's surgeon was daft enough to set sail on the open sea in an overcrowded inflatable dinghy with no training or experience.

We have on average 60k coming a year by safe routes outside work visas. Seems an ok figure to me but if people want to make a case for far fewer or double or triple give it a go.

I doubt the public opinion is for very high numbers though.

I think there are a couple of takers on here. I’d say they are outliers

I've been all over this thread stating exactly that, so I don't think my position is unclear. I do not think that asylum claims should be accepted or denied based purely on the "merit" of the claim - our capacity to support them should also be considered, and in a scenario with safe remote application routes, will become the limiting factor. I have worked in a volunteer capacity with refugees and befriended some. I'm not a heartless monster. But that experience made me realise the huge, huge, huge amount of support that is required for even one family to settle here.

If you have a problem with Yazidi women being raped, take it up with ISIS.

Also, while I think the UK needs to step up its game regarding speed of processing, this is different from saying all these applications need to be accepted. I find it weaselly when people try to conflate these two.

That should actually tell you something about how desperate people are, to leave their home at risk of death.