To think people who want "safe routes to migration" into the UK are hopelessly naive

[ForestGoblin]

We could spend every penny of public money on bringing refugees to the UK in comfy and safe boats and planes. We could make it mandatory for every home to provide accommodation and food. We could ban healthcare for anyone except refugees.

And there would still be thousands and thousands of boat crossings every year and millions more people languishing in bad situations and trying to figure out how to get here or elsewhere in northern Europe.

It's a crap situation. Life is bad. I feel dreadful for them.

But "safe routes" is a load of glib nonsense that can't work.

I just googled the Pugh foundation and cannot find it. 99% of a population with a single view on anything seems unfeasibly high - can you link that research please?

You’ve totally swallowed every detail of the government’s ‘Small Boats Week’ haven’t you OP?
Despite every single thing they tried to do showing their incompetence, heartlessness and contempt for the law. Well done.
Im not even going to try to respond because that level of determined ignorance is incomprehensible to me.

YABU! We could easily take in 50-100 million people every year, we have hardly built over any of the countryside and that needs to change. We could just tax anyone earning over £30k at 80% and use that money to build 50-100 million council homes and increase benefits so that everyone gets a minimum of £25k per year. We can also force people who own their own home and have a few spare bedrooms to take in refugees (or move out so the refugees can have the home as they are likely to be traumatised and vulnerable and more in need of it than a middle class person). We could probably take in more than that tbh but it's a start!

If we immediately returned all small boat immigrants back to France then this would surely stop the people smugglers and drownings. As France is a safe country this is not inhumane. It's wrong for France to simply pass on its illegal immigration to the UK. France needs to properly deal with its own issues.

I think Europe needs to agree quotas for each country to take asylum seekers and to recognise that more seek asylum than can be accommodated. Then the UK can directly take its quota of people in an organised and safe way eg from refugee camps.

Ludicrously over simplified. Good luck getting France to take back people who risked their lives to escape France to come here - why would they?

And if we took our ‘fair share’, we would be taking more than we currently do!

I agree that we should be welcoming some Afghans. Notably women and children who will really suffer under the Taliban regime and those who worked with British forces. Many young Afghan men however will only be moving for economic reasons and will hold views on women that many of us would find appalling. I would be less willing to role out a welcome mat for all.

And how exactly are these vulnerable women and children going to escape the taliban and make the perilous journey here?

France needs to properly deal with its own issues.

The French take is that Uk is at fault for not having identity cards, making it very easy to not be challenged and work off books (illegally) and devolving immigration control to unscrupulous employers who are happy to have slaves. Oh and Brexit which interferes with international cooperation. Little England voted for that, too.

As per earlier comments this could form part of the quota of genuine refugees we do look after. Women can and do escape to camps in Pakistan.

Strange. Please see https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2014/04/03/among-afghan-public-mixed-support-for-womens-rights/

The French have their own issues to deal with when it comes to tensions and tent accommodation.

I’m not sure they’re better placed in any case.

The longer version of the research quotes the 99% believing in Sharia law but even from the piece here there is strong evidence of a widespread societal problem with the treatment of women.

Oh. You spelt it wrong.
It says nothing similar to what you quoted....
"On one hand, 90% of Afghans in that survey agreed that everyone should have equal rights under the law (regardless of gender), and 83% agreed that women should have the same opportunities as men in education – including a strong majority (78%) of Afghan men. (The survey also found that 76% of Afghan women have received no education, an area Sarobi cites as a key priority.)
But at the same time, a significant minority of Afghans (36%) said that women should not be allowed to work outside the home – a share that had grown from 27% in 2006. While 82% of Afghan women said in 2013 that women should be allowed to work outside the home, just 51% of men agreed."

Sharia Law is the law of the land in Afghanistan so of course a large proportion "believe in it". That's basically them respecting their country.

That's like someone saying the British are stupid because we "believe medieval law".

Anyway. Always nice to see some islamophobia on a thread about immigrants

The French opposition to working "on the black" has nothing to do with ID cards, bit to the fact that large parts of French society oppose it, and they have sufficient Police and government officials to enforce the law - as well as proper criminal sanctions, in other words more or less the exact opposite of the UK.

I wish people would stop wanging on about fucking ID cards - they are really irrelevant.

@AdamRyan Was the Islamophobia comment meant for me? Always a sign you are loosing an argument when you start swinging in with allegations of racism. As the article notes there are a large proportion of Afghan men who believe that women should not be educated, women should not work and an interpretation of law that would mean husbands are fully entitled to beat their wives. If you wish to respect these traditions and see the rights of women downgraded I do not.

As the article notes there are a large proportion of Afghan men who believe that women should not be educated

Since when has 22% been a large proportion?

I'm not "loosing" an argument.
I was pointing out that you quoted research that doesn't show what you said it did. And that you were scaremongering about Sharia law.

If its not based in Islamophobia, how do you explain why you misrepresented the facts?

For the majority of people it's wilful naivety yes. For the open borders activists who crafted that as a strategy and a slogan it's very clever. But then they get paid lots of taxpayer money to sit around brainstorming ways to get the average easily manipulated inmate of western civilization to abolish their borders, and with enthusiasm too. We're getting our money's worth at least.

Mn does a good service. Plenty willing to oblige.

What % of English men believe that women should not be educated? Is it more or less than 22%?

No idea. I suspect far more secretly think it than would openly come out and say it.

Read this link:

The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society | Pew Research Center

You, and everyone else, has absolutely no business having opinions on immigration, let alone having the right to pretend to vote on it, when you're this ignorant. The question they were asked specifically was whether they favoured making sharia the official law of their country. Not whether or not they 'believe in it', whatever that means.

And 99% is not actually an outlier. It's the highest, sure, but someone has to be on top. Look at Iraq - 91%. Neighbouring Pakistan 84%, Bangladesh 82%, Malaysia 86%. This has absolutely nothing to do with respecting your country. You literally don't understand the basics of how those huge majorities view their country and their religion and the relationship between the two. They're not stupid. The only stupidity around here is the continued wilful ignorance of what's now fortunately a minority, albeit still a powerful one, of westerners.