To think people who want "safe routes to migration" into the UK are hopelessly naive

[ForestGoblin]

We could spend every penny of public money on bringing refugees to the UK in comfy and safe boats and planes. We could make it mandatory for every home to provide accommodation and food. We could ban healthcare for anyone except refugees.

And there would still be thousands and thousands of boat crossings every year and millions more people languishing in bad situations and trying to figure out how to get here or elsewhere in northern Europe.

It's a crap situation. Life is bad. I feel dreadful for them.

But "safe routes" is a load of glib nonsense that can't work.

I know hardly anyone with a 2nd home in France & I know lots of Remainers.

ID cards aren't a magic bullet for all ills, but there are a handful of problems which would be improved if we had them and their absence does make the UK more attractive for the small minority of immigrants who are exactly the people who the country least wants.

I do think Windrush problems would have been flagged up much quicker if we'd had ID cards from the start and hence they'd have been more soluble . A lot of the issues arise from the unrealistic and unwarned requirement of keeping records for decades on end.

Would it? Can you explain how ID cards would have worsened the Windrush scandal?

@Jamtartforme isn’t wrong

You can remove people to another location (Aus does this) but you can’t just deport people back to country of origin

Having safe routes doesn’t change international law

Yes - no country wants to deal with it.

mmmm a French immigration minister has said that the UK's rules and regulations on employment & accessing healthcare (or lack of them) make the UK a preferred destination for asylum seekers.

Its incredibly easy to get cash in hand work here & anyone can be anybody if asked who they are (highly unlikely they ever will be, we just don't police this sort of thing)

Why do you think so many Albanians were so keen to come here? almost all purely economic.

Would it make a difference now? who knows but if every country in Europe has ID cards and we don't... who is likely to wrong?

Not following your reasoning here. It’s up to the government to decide on the number of asylum seekers granted refugee status but if you support none that means you’re a racist? What number do you need to support then not to qualify as a racist? You seem to support a limit - some would say that’s racist.

I'd be against the UK implementing safe routes on its own but along with the EU/UN - sure! Seems like the only reasonable way forward. Immigration is not going away with climate change ramping up.

Also we surely need some economic migrants, we have a labour shortage thanks to Brexit.

As I understand it, the wind rush issue was that people were challenged and deported despite being eligible to stay because of a lack of documentation produced and maintained by the home office. Id cards would surely help this situation.

With AI coming on leaps and bounds and predicted to replace around 60% of jobs this simply isn't true anymore.

Not one of the issue you cite requires everyone to carry ID and present it to multiple people a day.
We could enforce the existing laws we have without making everyone have an ID card.
It’s just trotted out as a solution to various issues that are nothing to do with ID by people who haven’t really thought about it - and seem not to have noticed how all UK government IT is massively expensive and run by incompetent people. Pardon me if I don’t trust the government to licence my existence back to me - I don’t fear their ill intent (although everyone should) as much as their sheer uselessness.

There are safe routes to migration to the uk but these are generally only open to skilled people or those with family who can support them.

That doesn't help all the companies that need welders and labourers now or the NHS who desperately need doctors and nurses.

The NHS workforce does have a significant number of nurses from overseas including the Phillipines and Nigeria. The issue there is that we are considered to be poaching nurses from their home countries where people also need treatment. So it's not as ethical as you might think.

@floribunda18

exactly

It’s fine from the Philippines. They train far more nurses than they need specifically so they can be exported. The money they send home benefits their economy.

@JamSandle

well to avoid that we can use our foreign aid to train people couldn't we.

and I am sure you know about the model where money is sent back as a pension etc ???

so I think it's not too large an issue especially if you talk the countries where these boat people are coming or appear to be coming from so seems a deflection really.

There are safe routes to get a uk visa from pretty much every country in the world for people with certain skills or family who can sponsor them. Or a place on a university course. Once you have a valid entry visa you can book a flight.

this is general immigration though, not asylum.

@SueVineer

there are no safe routes from Syria Iran taliban land for example . No route atall.

I do support more nurses and health care workers in the UK. We desperately need it. But we do have to consider ethical implications overseas.

If we had safe routes to migration, people could apply properly and we could pick and choose the people we wanted with the skills we wanted.

”Pick the people we want with the skills we want” and “safe routes” applies to different groups of people though.
”Safe routes” are needed for asylum seekers, “people with the right skills” would be economic migrants.
Would you deny someone asylum because they don’t have the skills we want?
And what happens if someone applies for asylum in the British embassy in Paris and their claim is declined, but they choose to go to the UK anyway because they speak the language?

It will pretty soon. It’s already starting to cut workload in NHS. Early days but it will speed up.

@JamSandle

well why not train the people coming over then?

Do you mean train the vast numbers of men?

Do they want to be trained as nurses?